In this episode, Staff Writer Tyler Duffy joins to talk about the all-new Ford Bronco–just days after driving it on- and off-road for the very first time. The new Bronco is hugely anticipated, both by classic car fanatics and off-road enthusiasts. But the biggest news here is how well the Bronco will stack up against its biggest competition: the perennial 4x4 champion Jeep Wrangler. Ford had the Jeep Wrangler square in its sights when designing the new Bronco, and after several years of frustrating delays, it has launched to rave reviews. Tyler discusses how the new Ford handles highways and trails, and what it's like to be in the cabin and behind the wheel–and doesn't mince words about how well it stacks up against the Jeep.
Tyler Duffy joins to talk about how the new Ford handles highways and trails, and doesn't mince words about how well it stacks up against the Jeep.
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Nick Caruso:
This is The Gear Patrol Podcast. In this episode, Staff Writer Tyler Duffy joins to talk about the all-new Ford Bronco, just days after driving it on and off-road for the very first time. The new Bronco is hugely anticipated, both by classic car fanatics and off-road enthusiasts. But the biggest news here is how well the Bronco will stack up against its biggest competition, the perennial 4x4 champion Jeep Wrangler. Ford had the Wrangler square in its sights when designing the new Bronco and after several years of frustrating delays, it has launched to rave reviews.
Nick Caruso:
Tyler discusses how the new Ford handles highways and trails, and what it's like to be in the cabin and behind the wheel. And he doesn't mince words about how well it stacks up against the Jeep. Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you hear, we hope you'll subscribe and send us a five star review. They help the podcast get into more ears and help more people join in on the conversation. I'm Nick Caruso and I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. So Tyler, we're here to talk about the hotly anticipated new Ford Bronco, which can almost not be discussed without mentioning its arch nemesis, the Jeep Wrangler. But if we can be agnostic of that for a second, I want to ask you one big question. And that is, does the new Bronco live up to the hype?
Tyler Duffy:
Well first, I think we should re-emphasize just how much hype for the Bronco there was. Ford-
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, good point.
Tyler Duffy:
... first said they were bringing back the Bronco in January 2017, so that's before Donald Trump took office. Ford finally released a teaser image of the Bronco under a tarp in April 2019 if I remember correctly. So, that's over a year later.
Nick Caruso:
[crosstalk 00:02:04].
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, you've got the rumor mill just endless speculation about what this vehicle is going to be for another two more years. And then I was set with other BDA members to go finally look at the new Bronco in march 2020. And of course, the pandemic happened which created more delays. Ford finally launches this thing in last summer and then nearly a year later, I finally got to drive it. After this has had just a huge media blowout. And more than 125,000 people have not just reserved it, but ordered it. They have their vehicles coming and paid for. So, this is a huge deal.
Tyler Duffy:
So, getting back to the question, does it live up to the hype? And I say this not agnostically as someone who my mother has owned six Jeep Wranglers or CJs, over the years, including the last five generations. It definitely lives up to the hype. This is the vehicle that everybody has been waiting for and the Jeep Wrangler has a competitor. And I might even go beyond that and say that, if you're taking cost out of it and everything, the Bronco might be the better option for most people.
Nick Caruso:
Well damn, that is quite the statement. I know I've been anticipating it for a long time. I have like many, many other car people sort of just loved the Bronco or had a soft spot for it, or appreciated it for a very long time because, it has such a storied history. And building on that like this new vehicle almost had to knock it out the park. So, let's talk really quickly about that history just to give a little more context, and then launch into like describing exactly what this thing is. The original one was in the '60s, right? We're seeing all sorts of like Restomods now and such. But the original was kind of like a smaller, Proto SUV in the '60s.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. I mean, it was Ford's equivalent of sort of a Jeep Wrangler. They started in the '60s. I think they're claiming that they're the first company to use the term sport utility vehicle, but I mean, you talk like basic boxy two-door, four-wheel drive, SUV. The first generation has a very classic shape that is really popular in the Restomod market, and it's probably the reason Ford went back in to build the new one after a 25 year hiatus. And then sort of you have the Bronco kind of... It stays in the lineup for through the '70s and '80s through a couple generations. It kind of gets bigger probably not as aesthetically pleasing. And then I think probably the real reason people remember it is obviously, it was what O. J. Simpson was driving when he was being chased down the highway on national television.
Nick Caruso:
Right. I'm sure Ford doesn't like to talk about that at their press conferences.
Tyler Duffy:
Actually, when I went to ride in the Bronco last year, they had a whole history of the Bronco thing set up. I mean, they had the O.J part of the exhibit. So, they weren't going around that, they sort of embraced it.
Nick Caruso:
No kidding, scan like a warts and all approach. Yeah, I remember a neighbor down the street from me growing up, had an Eddie Bauer version of that last generation of the Bronco and has that beautiful red color or like a tan top 10 roof, so that ended in the mid '90s. And then we've had like concepts and these weird sort of like one off rumor mill kind of vehicles since then. Dwayne Johnson drove a Bronco concept in the movie Rampage, about the monkey getting really big and destroying cities, which I've seen several times. And now we're here. So, what have we ended up with, now that we've gone through all those cycles, and waited for years and years for this new one? Can you give us like the top level sort of summary of the new truck?
Tyler Duffy:
Sure. The Bronco is a midsize SUV. It's going to be a little different than the original one because I don't believe any of the previous Broncos had four doors. This one, like the Wrangler you can order it with four doors, which makes it a viable family car and more sellable. I mean, I would suspect the reason that Ford dropped the Bronco in the first place was because they had the Explorer and lots of people like the Explorer because you can use it as a family car. And then bones of it is basically going to be very similar like the original Bronco was, the Ranger. It runs on the truck platform and then you have sort of two engine options. You have the 2.3 liter four-cylinder. Ford has numbers on premium gas and regular gas. I don't know anybody who would put premium gas in their off-roader necessarily. So, regular gas, the 2.3 liter, 275 horsepower, 315 pound-feet of torque and then there's an upgraded 2.7 liter V6 where you get 315 horsepower and 410 pound-feet of torque
Nick Caruso:
Right on. So, this is where we can start talking about not as in terms of Wrangler but we can start comparing to the Wrangler because we're going to be doing that throughout. We're going to kind of walk through your review because you have just gotten back from the drive, at the time of recording I think just a couple days ago now. And it's fresh on your mind and like to say you're a long time Wrangler driver yourself, so you've got a good comparison in your brain and you're going to share it with us. The Wrangler has several more engine options, it also comes in two and four doors, spec wise do they otherwise kind of line up?
Tyler Duffy:
Briefly I'll answer that. No, I mean if you're looking at just the four-cylinder and the six-cylinder then the Bronco, the four-cylinder lines up with just about every sort of Wrangler regular gas engine with a little more torque. The six-cylinder is more, I forget the exact specs on the Wranglers sort of tried in to six-cylinder engine but the Bronco has way more torque, and significantly more horsepower. The difference, because Jeep obviously an the interim nearly a year since the Bronco launch, Jeep has the 4xe plug-in hybrid which is 375 horsepower, 470 pound-feet. Jeep also has Diesel, which has just about as much torque, and they have the new Wrangler 392 Hemi-powered V8 monstrosity which is 470 horsepower and 435 pound-feet of torque. So, if you want a Wrangler that has more power than the Bronco you can definitely get that.
Nick Caruso:
And there's been rumors for a long time that there will be kind of like a high performance Bronco too. Is that your understanding? I mean, should we expect that there will be a competitor to that Hemi V8 in the Wrangler?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, definitely. I think last September, so this is a couple months after the Bronco launched, Ford just tweeted an image of a Bronco sort of flying through the air with a lot more articulation than the normal Bronco has, which would suggest that it's probably something... Whatever Ford's ends up calling it, it's probably the Bronco Raptor, which is probably going to have a much more powerful engine and more off-road capability. So, I think that's coming. I would be surprised if the Bronco doesn't have a hybrid. Ford has the engine that's in the Lincoln Aviator, whatever the one is, it's got like over 600 pound-feet of torque and 450 horsepower.
Nick Caruso:
Yes, the Aviator, it's insane.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, you can see them considering something like that for the Bronco. So, the hybrid and the super powered Bronco that's going to be a competitor for the Wrangler three, that could end up being the same car. But Ford made a real big effort here, like they're calling the Bronco like a sub-brand. They're claiming that Bronco is like a new brand and then they're the only all 4x4 brand in America. So, I would expect more vehicles, more options for the regular Bronco, pickup truck pretty much anything you could think of Ford is probably considering it for this.
Nick Caruso:
Right. That's an interesting thing to bring up too, like to put it into even more context within the Ford family. They're considering literally, the Bronco name is now a sub-brand of Ford, like they have recently made Mustang a sub-brand of Ford. Mustang has the two-door sports car we all know about. But now there's the Mach-E, which is like a electric crossover. Those are both Mustangs. And then we have the Bronco here and the Bronco Sport, the Bronco Sport is based on the Escape, there're other little SUV. But those are both Broncos, and they are a brand. So, that's just a little context for anybody who's wondering what a Ford sub-brand is these days.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, and you can see why the strategy makes sense. Because when people think of Ford, they think of like some of these skill old Taurus or something. People don't have a very positive or feel like a premium image that pops into their head when they hear Ford. But you hear Bronco, you hear Mustang, those are cooler, those have a more positive image. So, you can see why Ford wants to emphasize those versus it's own sort of blue oval brand name.
Nick Caruso:
Great. So, that's the rundown, that's what the Bronco is. You've already told us that you think that the new Bronco very well may surpass the Jeep in terms of sort of like capability, or drivability or desirability, maybe. But let's break that down, let's go through your review process. You just drove this thing, so let's start talking about the specifics. And the first I know because I've been on press drives for new cars, they give you the car and you drive it on the road for a while before you do the fun stuff. So, what is the Bronco like on the road?
Tyler Duffy:
I think on the road is a good place to start because I think that's probably where the biggest distinction between these vehicles is. Jeep with the Wrangler and I believe the Gladiator has been sort of the lone holdout, still using a solid axle front suspension for the vehicle. You can argue that that has benefits for off-roading although the Land Cruiser does not have one, the 4Runner doesn't have one. I think with the modern technology companies can recreate that capability without the downsides of the solid axle which is it handles awfully on the road. Jeep has done some engineering miracles to make the Wrangler drive as well as it does, but it's still sort of a hindrance.
Tyler Duffy:
When you drive the Bronco, it's much, much better on the road. When you turn the wheel, the steering is heavier, it's more direct. When you turn the wheel, the car goes where you turn the wheel and it's not like the Wrangler where you're just constantly making a million different course corrections with the steering, like it sort of dives nimbly into a corner and just does it. And then these aren't like your normal corners. We were in Austin, Texas, this is my first time there and it's way hillier than I ever imagined. So, we were entering pretty young, tight, aggressive corners and the Bronco is very nimbly handling that. At the same time it doesn't feel like a car when you're driving it, it still feels like an off-roader, like a Jeep or 4Runner. You get the right height, I had the manual transmission for this portion of the drive.
Tyler Duffy:
So, you still get like a lot of travel with a transmission and you get like a clunk when you hit the gear, so it's like driving a truck. So, it's just balanced very well so you get the benefits of sort of off-road vehicle feel but you're not really making the sacrifices for it because handles a level above that. Now could Jeep maps that for the next generation of the Wrangler? Absolutely, but yeah. Ford was confident enough in this they had a brand new Wrangler Rubicon sitting there across the drive to compare it. It was one on mud terrain, so one set up completely optimally for road use, but you drive it and immediately feel the difference in the steering. It's just much tighter and the Bronco is much tighter doesn't have the same level of sloppiness as the Wrangler does.
Nick Caruso:
Right. It's such an interesting predicament almost for Jeep, because you want to be able to move forward and like you say, like perform engineering magic to make your vehicle that is essentially decades old, it's a brand new vehicle many times over since then. But the Ethos with that solid axle and everything that is an old car, and they have to make an old vehicle feel new, this Ford had the benefit of starting from scratch with this thing. So, the advantages is built-in. But it'll be interesting to see if Jeep can like, catch up in on-road driving, because that's where most people drive them anyway.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, I think the big thing to remember with the Wrangler, and then just some extent the Toyota's, the 4Runner and the Tacomas those cars have never, until very recently had a lot of competition. So, there hasn't been like a like for like, competitor for the Jeep Wrangler in forever. So, even though Jeep has made them better and made them more family friendly, but they had really attack the on-road driving with an independent front suspension, because there's been no need for it because they sell 200,000 plus Wranglers a year. Just because people want the Wrangler as it is. So, there hasn't been really incentive to innovate. But now the Bronco adding competition, I think we might see more improvements.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. This is a spoiler alert for anybody listening, but we're going to kind of end this, like to end our conversation with comparing to a few other vehicles. But that is a great point, is that even though sometimes we might consider things like the 4Runners or even the Land Rover Defender, other vehicles like that as competition for the Wrangler, they're really not. I mean, they're not the same sort of setup, they're not the same purpose. They're not like a fun forward vehicle, I guess I would call. Those are designed to be on road. Let's return to something you said, I skipped over it, so we could keep talking about that. But the manual transmission, that's something we did not mention upfront when we were talking about engines and such. Manual transmission is an option on both of the engines, is that right or is it just smaller?
Tyler Duffy:
No, just the four-cylinder, the 2.3. So, if you want a manual transmission you have to sacrifice the V6.
Nick Caruso:
Got it. And it's technically a seven speed but it's not really a seven speed?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, there are seven gears on it, it's basically in normal driving it functions as a six speed manual transmission and then there's the seventh gear which is a crawler gear which you can use for low speed kind of rock crawling.
Nick Caruso:
Right on. So, in terms of like it's... So long as we're talking about transmissions and stuff, there are also several packages you can get with the car too, I don't want to call it a car, the Bronco. Without walking people through the actual online car configurator. Can you kind of give an idea of the scope of Bronco vehicles that you can get when you're shopping around for one?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, Ford's idea with this was they don't come into this with a target customer they came into it with multiple target customers. So, the basic idea with a Bronco is that you're going to be able to get the exact Bronco you want. So, that starts with the trim levels where you can get sort of a Base Bronco, which is the very basic vehicle up to the Badlands which is the like fully loaded off-roader. But you get different packages within the trim, so you can get the Wildtrak trim, which is an off-roader. But it's not the same type of off-roader as the Badlands, it's more geared for sort of cruising on sand versus climbing rocks. So, you get the Sasquatch package on that which has the big tires and everything but I don't think it has the base plates underneath it as much armor as the Badlands does.
Tyler Duffy:
So, you get the trim levels and then beyond that, like Ford just has a ton of accessories. I think it launched with more like 200 accessories and like a lot of the car is modular so if you want different bumpers or grills a normal person with basic tools can take the stock ones off the car and put the other ones on. And so if you're an off-roader and you don't want to wreck your car, you can basically take off the fenders, take off the bumper, put your off-road ones on, not worry about passing those on rocks, and then come back home, put the normal ones out and go to work the next day. The other thing with what Ford did with the Bronco too is that they give you a lot more options. So, with Jeep, if you want the fully loaded off-roader you have to level up to the Rubicon, that's where you get that. Whereas Ford has that Sasquatch Package which has the upgraded dampers, it has everything, you can get that on the Base Bronco.
Nick Caruso:
Oh, nice.
Tyler Duffy:
So, there's just a lot of options about how you can sort of build that out, whether you can do that cheaply maybe it's something we might talk about later.
Nick Caruso:
That is really interesting. And we're going to drop a link to the online configurator because that's always fun. The modularity of this, the Bronco is really interesting, because you've got those trim levels, and like you say can drop the really cool stuff on the small ones. And I want to clarify from my own sake, you're talking about modularity in terms of like actual parts of the car? You're talking about getting those parts from Ford, right? Like you purchase like the off-road fenders or bumpers and stuff that you can swap out with your dealer installed stuff. You're not talking necessarily about going third party to get these things and swapping them out or are you?
Tyler Duffy:
You can do both. But Ford's idea with this and they're following a lot of other manufacturers here is they'll realize that the aftermarket is a multibillion-dollar industry, and they're trying to bring as much of that in-house as possible. But, when I'm talking about modularity, I'm talking about you can actually take apart the car with basic tools. Like, when we were on this trip Ford had Bronco's there so people could see how easy it was to go wrench on them and take parts off the car. And the car is designed so that when you take those parts off, even if you're not going to drive without a bumper and everything but it's still meets crash test standards when you take those parts off. So, you can be confident in your handiwork that you're still going to be safe when doing that. But I mean, it's designed basically to build a vehicle you want for whatever you want to use it for.
Nick Caruso:
That's like an illegal chop shop owners dream. Just like carry a little bag of tools around and stripped down the new Bronco you just found I love it. We went on a fun sort of tangent there talking about the actual makeup of the car but if I can return to on-road driving this sort of matched up with your original premise that it does essentially beat the Jeep Wrangler it is, that as a check mark for the Bronco. It's a point in that column. So, let's move on and talk about off-road which is not as common but definitely more exciting. What was your experience with the off-road portion of your drive down in Austin?
Tyler Duffy:
Ford has this, for every Bronco owner, it's complimentary, you have to get down there yourself and I believe get a hotel room or whatever but they have this called the Off-Rodeo Program, where you go. There's one in Austin, one in Las Vegas, and I think one in Moab and they tried to have one in Vermont but the local shut it down. But basically you go there and then you can drive Broncos off-road and they teach you how to do all the stuff that the Bronco can do. So, you feel more confident doing that. We basically did the Off-Rodeo Program in Austin which is so three trails, there was Jalapeño, Habanero and Ghost Pepper. And that obviously the spice level correspond to the difficulty of the trail. So, my group got chucked on the Ghost Pepper, won immediately with all the rock crawling. And I think-
Nick Caruso:
Hope you brought some milk in like a Jerry can or something?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. But, with the caveat, Ford specifically designed these trails for this vehicle to be able to handle it. I mean, this was boulders and pretty aggressive rock crawling more than pretty much any manufacturer except maybe Jeep would put you through. We were going forward and reverse going up and down doing basically anything you can possibly imagine using an off-roader for on these trails. And the Bronco was seriously impressive. It's very nimble, you get around tight turns as a trail turn assist where it cuts the turning radius like. So, it's really capable and it's also really easy to use, because unlike sort of a Jeep like all the off-road buttons are right above the touchscreen. So, the differentials are up there, the trail turn assist is up there. The Bronco has the sway bar disconnect option and that's all up there.
Tyler Duffy:
So, you can basically just reach over, and press the button and do what you need to do. I mean, I can't make a direct comparison to the Wrangler, because I'm sure somebody on YouTube will do that now, because I'm probably not as experienced enough of an off-roader to really get into the details about what the differences between the two, but I think the Wrangler may technically be better at extreme rock crawling, which is what is designed for, but I think for what 98% of the Bronco buyers are going to do with this it's going to be more than capable. It did these trails that were fairly rigorous without almost no sweat no effort just even the four-cylinder engine was just plowing through it with no problem.
Nick Caruso:
That's great. So, you went with both off-road, both engines rather?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, I drove both, the four-cylinder and the six-cylinder with the automatic off-roader. There wasn't a point where you could really tell the difference, they both had more than enough power. I accomplished the task.
Nick Caruso:
Do all the come with all the off-road gadgetry, that the modes, and switch gear and everything you're talking about that are placed above the display?
Tyler Duffy:
No. So, I believe the Badlands trim, which is the top level that has everything, so I don't have the trim models in front of me. But basically like if you want like the base one as constituted isn't going to have all those stuff. So you need to level up to get everything. And I think I was in a Wildtrak that it did not have the sway bar disconnect, but did have the front and rear differential lock. So, don't expect to like walk in and buy a cheap, Bronco and then have all of these features. Because that and the G.O.A.T. mode it has which are like the different driving modes, like some of them have five and then some of the seven. So, there's a lot of variation depending on what you're getting.
Nick Caruso:
Right. Sounds like it truly is modular. So, speak of G.O.A.T. mode, we have to explain that because it may not be totally intuitive for people listening. So can you talk about the G.O.A.T. modes for a moment?
Tyler Duffy:
Sure. So G.O.A.T., it's not greatest of all time, which is obviously Tom Brady. It's stemmed from the like original Bronco when it was sort of go over any terrain. And so the G.O.A.T. modes, it's sounds really complex to have like seven different driving modes. But if you've driven a modern car, it's going to be pretty similar. So, three of the driving modes are your normal, like on-road. So, you have the normal driving mode, the eco mode and the sport mode. And then the rest of them are terrain modes. So, they're pretty easy to use. So, if you're going out, you need the modern Ross mode so you switch over to modern Ross mode, and then the car automatically recognizes you need for high so it's it shifts into that. And then the terrain camera pops on and you're ready to go.
Nick Caruso:
Got it. So, it's easily selectable. I think certainly Subaru owners are really familiar with those modes and the little dial down there. I know that even other earlier Ford vehicles like the Raptor has had like Baja Mode or those extreme kind of-
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, there's a Baja Mode on some of the Broncos. [crosstalk 00:32:48].
Nick Caruso:
Oh there is.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, if you've driven an F-150 sort of same thing.
Nick Caruso:
If I may sidestep a second, that is one of the most crazy experiences I've had in a vehicle. When I tested the Raptor, the current generation of the Raptor, which is their super truck. Of course [inaudible 00:33:08] to Baja, and we were doing highway speeds on like desert rock beds and it was just soaking it up. Like we were floating down the road and road was wild. So, if that's any indicator, it sounds like these modes at least in the top trim level of the current Bronco might be pretty capable.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, part of selection we did was sort of hot laps where we had sort of off-road racing drivers take us around in the Bronco. And then like one of the like impressive things was like, because I rode with one of the guys who did like the durability testing for Ford. And we're banging around hard just go I got it. And he's like, we did this for 700 miles I mean, this is a stock vehicle that can do, I think it did the Baja at 1000 or whatever the race that I mean, as a mostly stock. So, this is a very, very tough, capable vehicle whether it beat the exact heights of the Wrangler on sort of the Rubicon trail, I don't know. But it's a very capable, tough vehicle.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, so that's off-road, it's got all the stuff I mean your review is up. When this episode airs, we're in the middle of what we're calling a Gear Patrol Bronco week, there's all sorts of content about the Bronco up there, including your review, and rundowns of the SUVs, sort of like capabilities, and equipment, and we'll have a much more in depth explainer of all the intricacies of packages and from the Sasquatch to the crawl gears and how you can Configure everything. So, okay, let's talk about like more practical stuff then you just alluded most people right stay on-road. But 100% of people who will drive and or own a Bronco will be inside it at some point. So, I know you had some particular points to make about what it's like inside the Bronco. So, why don't you just take us away and we'll parse it apart.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. I think you when you're designing a car, Mercedes can do everything with the G-Class or that's going to Excel it provides everything. If you're building a Ford there's somewhere where you're going to have to give way and this car is so good on-road, so good off-road. Basically, the interior was sort of where you throw the accountants a bone I think with this vehicle. If you're looking for like a luxurious interior, this isn't your car. Ford argument is that they wanted something durable. And I don't know who goes with a hose into their own car with the touchscreens and everything but apparently off-roaders do that. And the Bronco has a package where you can do that. But [crosstalk 00:36:29].
Nick Caruso:
If all your friends went and jumped off a bridge while they were spraying the interiors of their car out with a hose, would you? That's kind of the argument.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, Ford went with serve a simplistic they wanted the dashboard to be as simplistic as possible. That gets a little weird because when I first got into the car, I could not find the mirror adjustment, or the window controls. I couldn't find them because they're located under the center armrest facing backwards toward the dashboard. So if you're sitting in the driver's seat, you can't see them. So, there's that.
Nick Caruso:
That's annoying.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, I mean there's no trim where you can get like full on leather seats in the Bronco, they talk about their like marine grade vinyl or whatever. And there's little things like if you want like a heated steering wheel, or adaptive cruise control or wireless charging for your phone that you'll find in a Honda Civic, with a Bronco, you've got to add the luxury package, which is another five grand to get those types of things.
Nick Caruso:
Jezz, okay. That's so expensive phone charger.
Tyler Duffy:
So, it's not a nice interior but it's going to be a very basic interior. And if you want like a lot of sort of modern luxuries and tech and stuff this isn't going to be the... It has heated seats it doesn't have cooled seats, sort of if you want like the latest tech the Bronco is probably not the car you want.
Nick Caruso:
Right, which is interesting because I feel like Jeep kind of has those things figured out. They have leather seating surfaces and probably easy to find windows switches in the Wrangler. So, that's an interesting sort of omission but I guess throwing the accounts of bone is the way to try to justify it.
Tyler Duffy:
Just on Jeeps interior, I drove the Grand Cherokee L's the new three row SUV four weeks ago. That is very capable off-road and has probably the nicest interior of any car I've driven in a while. I drove the Maserati Levante Trofeo that costs three times as much from the same company, the Grand Cherokee L's Summit Reserve interior is nicer than that. It feels like $120,000 SUV, and then the Wrangler also has a nice interior. You can get leather seats in a Wrangler. So, this wouldn't be a deal breaker, but if the interior of the car and having a comfortable interior is your thing like, this is going to be probably not I wouldn't call it fancy. I'll put it that way.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, that's fair. You mentioned that the window switches are in a weird spot, which calls to mind that the doors and the roof come off most of these models or is it all of the models of the Bronco?
Tyler Duffy:
I believe all the models are designed, the doors come off. So, Ford did somethings to make that easier. So, the doors are aluminum, so they're lighter. The mirrors are located on the car, not on the doors, so they're easier to store. In the four door, you have an individual bag for each door. So you can take the doors off, put them in the bags, easily handle them and then they fit in the trunk. So, Ford wanted to make that easier and they also want to make that safer. So, Jeep with a Wrangler there's some sort of loophole where like they don't have to do side impact safety testing, whereas the Bronco has like a whole curtain of airbags around this area. So, that even if you take the doors off, it's still supposed to be safer and meet crash testing standards.
Nick Caruso:
Okay. I mean, maybe the interior isn't as fancy but the fact that you may live inside it in dire circumstances may be a deal breaker. That's interesting. But at the very base level of sort of drives on the point, how direct of a competition this is. The elements are all the same, right down to the removable doors.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, well when Ford was designing this vehicle, they literally looked at the Wrangler. And then took like, every pain point, everything that was possibly wrong with the Wrangler. And then they made that a feature on the Bronco. That's why they made taking off the doors easier because on a Wrangler, you take off the doors, you don't have any mirrors, and you don't have any place to put the doors. So, Ford's approach with the Bronco was looking at little things like that, looking at what Wrangler owners are annoyed by and making sure that the Bronco did those things very well as to offer a compelling alternative.
Nick Caruso:
Sounds like they may have succeeded in many ways. But you alluded to one element of the potential or the hypothetical, I should say, buying process for the Bronco that may cause some people to stiffen up a bit as the cost. And I think I've seen just a couple comments here and there that like you do sort of pay for the upgraded experience, shall we say? Maybe that's fair to say?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. I mean, I'd liken this to whether you're buying cable or compiling streaming services as an alternative to cable. So, the Wrangler would be sort of like cable, where you come in and you're paying a lot of money up front, and you're getting most of the features on the Rubicon. Whereas the Bronco on the surface of it, like sounding like you're only going to be paying for what you want, it sort of like streaming where it sounds good at the first time, but then you start adding Netflix and Amazon Prime, and Okay, I have kids, so I need Disney Plus. [crosstalk 00:43:16].
Nick Caruso:
Right, because you want to watch one specific show. Yeah, exactly.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. So, you start adding those things together, and the price starts going up. And obviously, when I got in these cars, I looked at the sort of monroney to see, which is the price sheet. I think three of the four Broncos that had one that I was in were over $50,000. And some of them didn't have everything, they were the four-cylinder instead of the six-cylinder or whatever. So, I think the fourth one was like 48,000 or something.
Nick Caruso:
Wow.
Tyler Duffy:
So, I think in practice you see the starting build price of, I think the starting price is 28,500. It's like okay, well look at that Base Bronco. Alright, fine. Okay, well, I need a four-door and I want an actual roof not a soft top. Okay, I think that brings the price up to about 35,000 already. And then if you want to add the Sasquatch to that because you can add the Sasquatch to the Brace off-roader. And you don't want to a $35,000 car running on steelies which car people like, but it's probably not something you want on your actual car. You add the Sasquatch, you are already over $40,000. I mean, you're already about the price of a Jeep Wrangler Sahara, and you start adding other stuff because you probably want some conveniences on your car.
Tyler Duffy:
Probably want floor mats. You're already in the mid-40s. So, yes, technically, Ford will let you get the off-road goodies cheaper. But I think when you factor in sort of all of the little things you need to add, it might be more, I don't think you're saving money buying a Bronco. And obviously this is also all before you start adding to the hundreds of accessories that Ford wants to sell you. So, I do think cost could come into play here. And there's also just availability. I believe I mentioned before Ford has 125,000 people who have pre-ordered their vehicles, they're just putting the car into production. 125,000 vehicles, that's as many as like, Toyota sells, a lot of 4Runners, that's about how many 4Runners Toyota sells in a year.
Tyler Duffy:
So, if you're going into a dealership now wanting to buy a Bronco this could be a substantial wait before you get to vehicle. And I think that that might... When I said the Bronco is that much better than a Wrangler that if you could walk into a dealer and buy a Wrangler now, or wait a year or however long it's going to take to get a Bronco. I think that may be a decisive factor for some people.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it's interesting that they sort of frame this as like, you can get anything you want so long as you pay for it and wait for it. Right?
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah, I've been doing the configurator like everybody else. And sort of basic things people might want like adaptive cruise control which for some Ford appears to be a luxury item. A universal garage door opener, like these are things you have to pay a lot of money for, [inaudible 00:47:00] heated steering, these are like pricey with features. You start adding the things you would actually want on your daily driving vehicle on to the price of things and like if you're buying the premium one like. Okay, The Badlands starts at 44,000 but the Badlands starts at 44,000 with the stick and with the smaller engines, you've got to add the engine things and then it doesn't have all the equipment inside the vehicle, like the luxury package and everything's so you got to add all that in too so again the prices are adding up quickly.
Nick Caruso:
Sure. Yeah, I know that. It's probably gone up slightly since I last looked. But I think the most expensive Wrangler, you could outfit with something like 60 grand not long ago.
Tyler Duffy:
Yeah. I mean, the 392 is going to be more, like that's going to be just endless money to buy and I can spend $80,000 on a stupidly powerful Wrangler. But I mean, generally, it used to be the mark that like, I've written a post saying, isn't it crazy that you can spend $60,000 on a Wrangler which now you can spend more than that with the opposite. I mean, if you're building a Bronco, it's probably not going to be affordable vehicle. I think that's fair.
Nick Caruso:
Right. So, well I guess, I encourage people then to try to build identical Wranglers, and Broncos, and compare them to see if that price really is kind of a deal breaker. But let's sort of wrap this up then with your overall opinion even though we kind of got a hot take out at the beginning. Like, all of this considered, is it going to be worth it, the weight, the price, the capability the drivability, the interior, all these things considered? Should a person wait you think?
Tyler Duffy:
So, I think first up, anybody's already ordered their Bronco, I think they're going to be very happy and get exactly what they want. And I think Ford has had like, I think 75% of the Bronco buyers are coming from outside Ford. So, a lot of people just this, and think it's cool. And those people are going to be very happy with this. Personally, would I sit around and wait for a long time versus just could lease a Wrangler now and then come back in a few years later and buy a Bronco when things have gotten sorted out and they have the Bronco Raptor at that point. Or they've added some features, the production process is smoother.
Tyler Duffy:
So, personally I don't think the difference is that Stark, where somebody who drives a Jeep is sacrificing a lot. I mean, it's basically the difference in the off-road handling, the on-road handling excuse me. But the other thing with on-road handling is that, if you live in Michigan with straight flat roads, how well this thing dives into corners is not going to become an issue that much. So, a Jeep would be perfectly fine.
Nick Caruso:
Got it. And it's a calculus. I mean, if you're in the market for one of these, you get a lot to think about anyway. And like I say, everybody where this is airing in the middle of an entire week of Bronco content on Gear PatroL, so keep your browsers open and keep poking around for that. And you can bet your bottom dollar that we're going to have a lot more experiences with the Bronco and there's going to be a lot more news as more and more rollout in those 125,000 people start getting theirs. I'm sure we'll hear more and more news. So Tyler, thanks for this big rundown, really appreciate you weighing in for your insights and opinions.
Tyler Duffy:
And Nick thanks for having me.
Nick Caruso:
Sure. And everyone, if you do want info and aren't ready to start poking around the site, check out the description in the show notes below. Or if you're on the website right now in the post, where you're listening to this. And you can find links and information about everything that Tyler and I just discussed. And look for Tyler's review as well. If you have any questions or comments for Tyler, for me, you can always hit us up on social media, our handle is GearPatrol, that's one word on all the platforms. You can email me at podcast@gearpatrol.com or you can comment on Tyler's posts directly on the site and all the other ones too. We really appreciate you tuning in to listen to this. And if you enjoyed yourself hope you will subscribe or are subscribed and hope you'll also shoot us a review. If you give us a five star review that helps us beat the algorithm into submission and get into more people's podcasting players. Tyler thanks again. And everybody thanks for listening. I'm Nick Caruso, and until next time, take care