This week we welcome a very special guest. Casey Johnston joins to talk about her Substack newsletter called 'She's a Beast,' the home gym she's set up in her Brooklyn backyard, and what's important for people to understand about fitness and lifting weights. Then we debate the merits of Amazon's new Halo View fitness tracker hardware and fitness and nutrition subscription services. Lastly, we end with a discussion of the Rivian R1T, glowing reviews of which have been flooding the web this week, and why it's such a mic-drop moment in the automotive space.
Casey Johnston's Substack newsletter, "She's a Beast," the merits of Amazon's new Halo View fitness tracker, and a discussion of the Rivian R1T.
Episode Navigation:
05:02 – Casey Johnston, author of She's a Beast
34:37 – Amazon Halo View, Halo Fitness, and Halo Nutrition
47:03 – Reactions to... Reviews of the Rivian R1T
Featured and Related:
Nick Caruso:
This is The Gear Patrol Podcast for Friday October 1st, 2021. I'm Nick Caruso, and this week, we're talking with a very special guest, Casey Johnston, about her Substack newsletter called She's A Beast. Then, well discuss Amazon's new fitness tracker hardware and subscription services, and then we're going to geek out on the Rivian R1T, reviews of which have been sort of flooding the web all week. So on the horn today with me is platform's editor JD DiGiovanni. JD, howdy duty?
JD DiGiovanni:
Hey Nick, how's it going?
Nick Caruso:
Oh, I'm good. Thanks for asking. And I know you and I both are very pleased to welcome our guest this week, writer extraordinaire and well-known swole woman, Casey Johnston. Casey, it's great to have you here.
Casey Johnston:
Hi, thank you for having me. I'm going to be curious to hear why you're so excited to have me. I think writer extraordinaire is maybe the nicest, most enthusiastic intro I've ever received on a podcast, so I really appreciate it.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, well I wrote it and edited it many times. That was [crosstalk 00:01:19].
Casey Johnston:
I'm going to have to steal that now, although it's the kind of thing one can't say about oneself. I think you have to... So just if everyone knows, often people write these podcasts. They ask you how you want to be introduced. I was not asked for this.
Nick Caruso:
That's right. That's correct.
Casey Johnston:
That came from Nick's own brain.
Nick Caruso:
That's right. I made it up. I don't want anybody to have agency over their own description. That's not how this works.
Casey Johnston:
This is about how you see the world, not about-
Nick Caruso:
That's correct.
Casey Johnston:
[crosstalk 00:01:50] not receive wisdom here on this podcast.
Nick Caruso:
Right. This is, when I said we're publishing this, I did not mean on Gear Patrol. This is just my own hobby thing here. But I do have, speaking of things that I've written, I do have in all caps on my notes here, I won't say it like this but it's in all caps so you can imagine it. It just says it's fall baby, because this is publishing on October 1st. It is chilly out. I was wearing a beanie on my bald head a few minutes ago, but I took it off because it-
Casey Johnston:
It's chilly. High under 70 I think today. It was like high of 66 in Brooklyn today.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it's great. Casey, JD and I talk about pumpkin spice stuff a lot.
Casey Johnston:
I just got through a can of, or a canister of Trader Joe's pumpkin spice coffee, which is so aggressively... I mean, I think there's, people maybe make too much of pumpkin spice things tasting just like spice and not really like pumpkin at all, but this is very, just half a cup of allspice in the coffee. It's so, so allspice-y that I'm set. I feel like I'm set on pumpkin everything now, and it's not even really October yet.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. JD, what's your pumpkin space status today?
JD DiGiovanni:
I need to top it up. I haven't had any pumpkin flavored anything in like two days, so it's kind of getting low. But it's all right. I think I can remedy the situation relatively quickly here.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, you've just got to line up a rail of that allspice and just get it in your system.
Casey Johnston:
Yes.
Nick Caruso:
We should note that there are, I think it's JD, there are children somewhere running around there. And while we appreciate and love children, we cherish them, they are noisy little suckers sometimes. So they may be having a little fun outside while we record, and that just adds to the pumpkin spice of life.
Casey Johnston:
I also have two cats here, who are... we're within two hours of dinnertime, striking distance, so it's time to meow at me for two straight hours until they're fed. So if you hear a cat, that's...
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, pleasant. I actually, now that you mention that, I just saw a tweet yesterday that one of the basic tenets of Zoom calls and the like are that if you mention that your cat is there, you have to hold it up and show everyone.
Casey Johnston:
Yes. If you mention you have a cat, you have to show the cat. If someone else hears a cat, they have to say cat in the chat.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. You haven't done either.
Casey Johnston:
This is just politeness now.
Nick Caruso:
You haven't done either though.
Casey Johnston:
That's true. He did come up screaming, I pet him to sort of placate him off camera. You didn't say cat, that's the problem. No one said cat in the chat. There's an order to this.
Nick Caruso:
Look, this is going off the rails. None of this is... this is not usable at all.
Casey Johnston:
I know, this is neither gear nor patrol right now.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, let's focus this up on some Gear Patrol. But actually what we want to talk about Casey, first, is your... shall I say new-ish project? It's called She's A Beast, which in many ways picks up where your former VICE column called Ask A Swole Woman left off. But before we sort of get into those details, this may, much like my intro I guess, sort of along the lines, you're a prolific fitness writer. I think you are kind of a truth teller in the space as well, very frank sort of voice. And in particular, you share quite a lot on your site and in your writing, and all over the place, about your own fitness journey and sort of your relationship with your body and nutrition and health. So I'm wondering if you can sort of give listeners and us the quick and dirty there about why are you a swole woman, and how that journey sort of informs all of your work.
Casey Johnston:
For sure. Well, the name of it, the moniker situation, is supposed to be a bit of a... it's not a red herring, but a false... false flag? I don't know what the right term is. But the whole thing is that I'm not really very swole looking or strong. I'm a pretty normal person who is just very enthusiastic about lifting weights. But the short version of how it happened is that for a long time, I was a runner. I was into running in my adult years, starting in college, with the goal of sort of losing weight and being in shape, and hopefully curing my depression, as people like to say about exercise sometimes.
Casey Johnston:
And then I just sort of kept going. I was dieting more and more, and running more and more, eating less and less, and just was never getting to a point where I felt like I could just sort of set and forget this process. It was just always on my mind, and it felt like the longer... the more time went on and the more that I did, the more that I had to do. And I was just like, this can't be the way that life works. So around 2014, I ran across a Reddit post where it was a woman, which was... is still unusual, but was more unusual seven years ago.
Nick Caruso:
On Reddit?
Casey Johnston:
Yes. A post by a woman on Reddit. Unusual already, but she was posting about her six months of progress with lifting weights, which I had thought... it's not that I thought it was only for men, but I thought it was sort of strictly if you want to be a body builder. There was no reason to be so as intense as to lift weights if that wasn't what you were after. But she was doing it just as a basic fitness thing, so she was like, "Here's my before and after pictures, here's what I do. I work out three times a week. I eat well over 2,000 calories a day, and it's going well. I'm loving it as you can see. Some positive aesthetic changes, but nothing really crazy is happening." And I was like, okay, this is sort of the opposite of how I thought about lifting, about exercise, about food. Everything is the opposite here, and it seems like she's living exactly the life that I would like to be living in terms of my time commitment and investment. But I wasn't. So I decided to try lifting weights, and that was seven years ago.
Nick Caruso:
Okay.
Casey Johnston:
Can you hear that?
Nick Caruso:
Cat? Cat?
Casey Johnston:
If I can grab ahold of him I can show you. Nope, he's [crosstalk 00:09:00] right now.
Nick Caruso:
A wily little devil.
Casey Johnston:
So okay, that's the story of how it started. And then for two years I was yelling at everyone about how great lifting weights was, and that they should try it. And eventually the editor of The Hairpin at the time was like, "You should write an advice column about exercise broadly, but you have this angle of lifting weights." It's very different from normal sort of fitness advice, which is usually focused on weight loss and focused on being hotter, and that's it. So yeah, that was five years ago. I've been writing it biweekly since then. You said prolific, but it's really one of those things where if you just keep doing it at a regular increment for a long enough time, it really builds up. I'm really behind on organizing all my past columns. But that's the story. Did I leave anything out? Miss anything?
Nick Caruso:
I don't know, it's your story. I think that sounds good. I mean, it's-
Casey Johnston:
Are you left with any questions I guess is what I want to know.
Nick Caruso:
No, I was going to wrap it up right here.
Casey Johnston:
Okay, okay.
Nick Caruso:
JD, I don't know if you've got anything.
JD DiGiovanni:
No, I mean I think that it's cool to hear the story. I've been following the column for a while, and I think that one of the reasons why it's such a fun read is because it occupies a space in fitness media that is so underserved. Where you have these people who are super hardos who are all about squatting way too much. Or not too much, right? But then lifting weights is just fun, and it doesn't have to be this super exclusive and excruciating club you have to join by dint of, I don't know, eating way too much protein or being a, I don't know, puffed up tough guy. You can just enjoy it in the same way that people run casually, or people do a lot of other sports casually. And I think that that, that to me, it's so amazing how unique that still feels. That after all these years, there's still not enough people doing that. And so I think that, from my perspective as someone who both just loves that stuff personally and loves a good column, it's one of the reasons why it's a standout one for me.
Casey Johnston:
That's cool, yes. I mean, I think that's the thing that I feel like I'm often saying. There's more and more people who are sort of on my page, and I don't even think I was the only one on my page when I started doing this. There's a handful. Not even a handful. There's a good number of people out there, it's just like they don't... they're not... Like I have Tracy Anderson on my YouTube homepage every time I go to YouTube.com, instead of somebody who I'm actually interested in. So yeah, but I like to say that lifting... you can have the same involvement with lifting as a lot of people do with running, and I think we falsely assume, and I assumed for a long time, that it was more effortful to lift weights than it was to run, and I hated running a lot.
Nick Caruso:
Running sucks.
Casey Johnston:
I overcame a mountain of hating running in order to... like I eventually ran a bunch of half marathons, so determined was I in my sort of weight loss goal. That I was like, "Okay, if this is how far I have to go, it's how far I have to go." And even still, it didn't really bring me peace. I don't want to say I didn't lose weight, but it never got me to the point of homeostasis, if you will. And I always assumed that lifting weights was for the more hardcore people, but I think even still now, I spend less time lifting weights, and I overall sweat less, I hate it less than I ever did. But I did with running, at the sort of worst, worst, most "effective" phase of it.
Nick Caruso:
What made it, in your view, is what perpetuates this sort of idea of lifting being that hardcore sort of difficult to approach sport? Is it pop culture, is it the people, the actual culture around it? What turns people off?
Casey Johnston:
You know, I think if we had an answer to this question, I could stop writing my column honestly. But it's something I think about all the time, and I think it's a number of factors. One potential one could be the effects of lifting are so visible that it sort of looks like more intense or more effective, or the people who we see who talk about lifting weights are usually who are bodybuilders. So there's sort of a false connection there that's encouraged in lots of other things, where we see fitness models who probably do lift weights, and have a very long, intense training background will be photographed in magazines, and it'll be like, "Here's a weightlifting workout," implying that it's going to make you look like this fitness model. And it's like chair dips, and modified pushups, and little bicep curls, and body weight squats, and three sets of 20 every day for all these exercises. And it's not saying, "Soon you too will look like this," but that's the implication. So it's all kind of one big complex marketing thing. I think that's a big part of it.
Nick Caruso:
Another question... go ahead, JD. No, [crosstalk 00:14:50] there.
JD DiGiovanni:
No I, if anything, and maybe I'm taking us off track here, in which case Nick, he can fix this mess. But-
Nick Caruso:
Off the rails.
JD DiGiovanni:
I wanted to kind of ask you about how your training personally has changed during the pandemic. And as someone who follows you on Instagram, I know you have this sweet Rogue setup in your backyard for lifting. And I guess I'd be curious, I mean for the whole gear portion of this, what was the process of getting that setup, and then after I don't know how many months, do you still enjoy doing, or working out in the backyard? And has the equipment held up at all?
Nick Caruso:
And can you sort of describe the setup for people who haven't seen it?
Casey Johnston:
Yes, totally. I had one followup. Did you say Rogue setup, like Rogue the brand?
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah, I have a couple of Rogue branded things, but I want to be clear they didn't sponsor it. This was all sort of cobbled together on my own, but okay. So maybe we'll take a bit of a-
Nick Caruso:
But they could.
Casey Johnston:
What?
Nick Caruso:
They could though. I mean, if anyone's listening.
Casey Johnston:
They could. Someone should have. I don't know why anyone didn't. I mean, I don't think I could've accepted it while I had-
Nick Caruso:
Fair.
Casey Johnston:
A staff job. But now if anyone would like to hook me up, please get in touch. Any of the gear or the patrol people, please reach out. But let me take this in a narrative way. So the pandemic, very bad, gyms shut down. My last, last day that I ever went to the gym was like March 7th I think, and at that point made a choice to stay home and work out, and the gym closed I think like a week later. So at that point, I for a while was using kind of makeshift weights, like a backpack filled with books, a planter filled with water that we had in our backyard. It was a big guy that probably weighed, I'm going to say 40 pounds, but I would hold it and do squats.
Nick Caruso:
Wow.
Casey Johnston:
There's video of this I think, on my Instagram. It's funny, I haven't thought about that in a while. Eventually, a lifting acquaintance of mine who ran a gym in Brooklyn decided to close her gym. I'm not sure if she's reopened it or if she ever plans to, but she sort of distributed out the equipment among friends of the gym was sort of [crosstalk 00:17:28]. Sort of hold this stuff. So I got there pretty late in the process, so I got like one 45 pound dumbbell, one 75 pound kettlebell, a couple of resistance bands, big super bands, and I think that was kind of it. But then I had a couple of heavy weights to work with, so I could do split squats holding the 45 pound dumbbell, or deadlifts with the kettlebell. So it wasn't perfect. I'm used to working with a rack and plates and barbells and things like this. But it was better than it was, it was better than the planter filled with water. And then by August, it was very hard to get ahold of weights for most of the pandemic, because everyone was trying to [crosstalk 00:18:18].
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. We covered this a ton, yeah. It was wild.
Casey Johnston:
I can imagine. And at that time, gyms had started to sort of reopen. My gym started holding classes at that time that you could sign up for, and it was like an hour. And we worked out on the sidewalk, actually. The coach at that time, God bless him, would move all of these racks out onto the sidewalk, and benches, and we would sort of get our own plates in an orderly fashion so as not to get too close to each other contagion-wise, and do our workouts and then go home. But, so that was a little bit tedious, and I was like, I don't know how long this is going to go on. I have a patio here, in my apartment. Not in my apartment, immediately outside my apartment that I share with my boyfriend.
Casey Johnston:
Let me think about the order that this happened. My coworker had bought a squat rack with a pull-up bar sort of attached at the top, with the intent of setting it up in our office in order to do pull-ups at work. We still had this at this time.
Nick Caruso:
That's normal.
Casey Johnston:
Yes, very normal. Very normal to do. His name is Jason Koebler at VICE if you would like to write to him about it. So he decided he was going to move away from the city, offered me this rack, I took it. And at that point, just sort of started... I started the process of hunting for plates and for barbells and all of this stuff. So through stock bots and various things, people tipping me off to like, "I just got an email from Rogue that these bumper plates are in stock," and I'd be like oh my God, and run and rush and go to the website. But now, okay, so now I have this squat rack, which is very simple. The brand is... I can't remember. It's not Rep, and it's not.. do you mind if I look it up really quick?
Nick Caruso:
No.
JD DiGiovanni:
Go for it.
Casey Johnston:
[crosstalk 00:20:14].
Nick Caruso:
We love a Google search on the pod.
Casey Johnston:
[crosstalk 00:20:16] squat stand...
Nick Caruso:
By the way, I love that this whole process involves this very metaphysical... meta, space, physical challenge, where you have to carry all this equipment away from people who you're borrowing it from. Like if you can lift it, you can use.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah, I know. It really was... it took a village in many ways. And yeah, I don't know if they're going to ask for it back ever. I don't know if the gym's going to start again. Oh my goodness, why can't I find the brand here?
Nick Caruso:
If you can't that's cool.
Casey Johnston:
This is insane.
Nick Caruso:
You can share, and I can... we're going to put a bunch of links below.
Casey Johnston:
Oh, it's CAP barbell-
JD DiGiovanni:
Oh okay, yeah.
Casey Johnston:
Stand. It's $160 now on Amazon, if anyone's curious. And then I have a set of mostly bumper plates, which are, I don't know if you're familiar with these. But they're the size of 45 pound plates if you've ever just seen 45 pound plates in the gym, but they're... a couple of them are 25 pounds, a couple are 10 pounds. It just lets you use lighter weights but be at the right height of the barbells on the ground. Fractional plates, I got a barbell from Rogue. Not from them gift wise, but purchased with my money. And that's kind of it as far as equipment.
Casey Johnston:
I was very nervous to even... it really stressed me out to do this or even tell anyone about it or post about it, because I was like, "People are going to think I'm an idiot for doing this, for putting all for this, taking like $1,000 worth of gym equipment and putting it outside. Everyone's going to be making fun of me," which is a thing I worry about anyway, but this seemed like in particular really asking for it. I got a tarp and some bungee cords to put on it, and eventually a sort of party tent. I think it is from Amazon Basics. It was like $100-
Nick Caruso:
Like an awning, yeah.
Casey Johnston:
That folds down. But I put it up almost a year ago and haven't taken it down ever, and it's been fine.
Nick Caruso:
Wow. Another endorsement, that's great.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah. So I have that tent, and then anytime I'm not using the gym equipment, it's pretty much wrapped in the tarp. So through a whole winter, a whole spring, a whole rainy summer, it's been fine. I think there's a couple of rusty screws on the stand, but not really load-bearing bad ones if I recall. I should do a thorough check on it at this point.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, you might want to.
Casey Johnston:
But the equipment is totally fine. I was worried it would all be ruined, that the barbell would be ruined, the place would be ruined, just by it sort of being even humid outside. But it didn't happen. I mean, it's all fine. Some of the plates that were cheaper have a little bit of rust on them, but the nicer, more expensive bumper plates are completely fine.
Nick Caruso:
That's great.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, good job. Sounds like it's held up pretty well.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah.
JD DiGiovanni:
It's one of those things too, it's just like there's so much... everyone went through this weird period of adversity, when everyone had their 25 pound dumbbell, right? Or I say everyone, but especially in the city. And hearing about how people actually figured out how to make it work is always interesting. I know that there was a stove maker, or a cast iron stove maker or something like that that was making kettlebells, and it was like the one place... no one was looking for kettlebells from someone who made cast iron stoves, and it was the only reason we could actually get any weights in my place as well.
Casey Johnston:
Wow.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, right?
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, we did-
Casey Johnston:
I know there was such a massive shortage of stuff. I mean, I don't...
Nick Caruso:
Cat.
Casey Johnston:
It makes sense. This is... oh, oh boy. See, if I acknowledge them they get...
Nick Caruso:
Okay, well we'll-
JD DiGiovanni:
Here's my... will you ever go back to working out in a gym, or are you so content with this set-up that you're good now?
Casey Johnston:
Oh yes, this was part of your question wasn't it?
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah.
Casey Johnston:
I'm sorry, that was a very long answer that I gave, and I didn't even get to all of the things.
JD DiGiovanni:
It's fine.
Casey Johnston:
I think as long as I have this, I'm pretty good. I think a lot of people think of gyms as being mostly machines, and then the barbell, plates and stuff are for the weird people who are into that, but you can do a lot with just those things. They're the most versatile. Those pieces of equipment together, you can do, you can work out all of the muscles that you need to for sure, but you can get quite a bit of variety out of them. So certain things like a leg press are not easy to simulate with this setup, but I can do everything that I need to do very easily. And the time trade off of going to a gym is not... nothing's in favor of doing that, really. I sort of miss the community of it. That's probably the biggest thing. But otherwise, I'm good. I can do all that I need.
Nick Caruso:
Well if it's like a backyard... like I have a backyard in my apartment too. I could have people over, right? We'd hang out back there, have a cocktail party, whatever. You could just invite people over to hang out while you lift your rusty weights.
Casey Johnston:
You know what's weird is no one's ever really asked to use the equipment. One person did, and I felt really bad telling them no actually, because it was still sort of peak pandemic, and I was like, I don't want to start a thing of people coming through-
JD DiGiovanni:
Getting cooties on your stuff.
Casey Johnston:
To do this, but even since then, no one's been like, I don't know, "Will you show me how to work out," or whatever. I don't know. [crosstalk 00:26:37]. Maybe they think of it as my sacred temple where they're not allowed, which isn't strictly true, but it kind of is a little bit.
Nick Caruso:
I'm sure that's part of it. Maybe that could be part of one of the subscription levels for the Substack, is-
Casey Johnston:
A personal training session in my famous backyard gym.
Nick Caruso:
Under the tarp. I also want to thank you for implying that I would have had personal experience with a 45 pound plate at any point. You can see me right now, and-
Casey Johnston:
You've seen them.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I've seen them.
Casey Johnston:
In a gym.
Nick Caruso:
I've seen them.
Casey Johnston:
You've seen them, probably someone used the leg press machine and they just left like eight of them loaded on each side.
Nick Caruso:
Yep. That's-
Casey Johnston:
That's the most common.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that person, the same person who would then stuff me in the locker in the locker room. So kind of one of JD's points earlier about, and yours when you were explaining, being your content's a little different, like the angle you take to pieces for Ask A Swole Woman on VICE, and now on She's A Beast kind of deal with, from my perspective at least so correct me if this is maybe off, but a lot with breaking down myths and changing readers' minds kind of like yours was about the sort of hardcore nature of lifting. And for any listeners who aren't familiar, I want to list a few of these titles or subjects. One is tricks for overcoming your biggest internal objections to working out. That was part of a subtitle. Another on why you should throw away your spin bike. Another on why some weight loss goals for things like upcoming weddings or parties or whatever won't work. And literally a series called, The Myths Of Body Weight Training.
Casey Johnston:
Spanning many years too, at this point.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that's a Star Wars kind of style thing.
Casey Johnston:
It really is, actually. Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. So to my mind, that's almost like a human approach to the subject, to kind of bring your own experience to it. Is that correct? Is that what you're trying to do? How did you decide to take that angle, rather than just go with straight up advice and how-tos and all that?
Casey Johnston:
That's a funny question, because I just sort of started doing this without thinking very deliberately about what it was that I was doing. To me, I was just yelling the things online that I had been yelling in person for a while.
Nick Caruso:
That's terrifying.
Casey Johnston:
I am not good at marketing myself. It's not my strength. I just sort of do what I do, and hope other people get it. But if I had to sort of explain it... and now I've thought, I've tried to think about it a little bit, just because I want to be more helpful to people and help them understand what it is that I'm broadly trying to get at, I guess.
Nick Caruso:
That's good of you.
Casey Johnston:
I'm doing my best, and that's all I can promise.
Nick Caruso:
Prolific.
Casey Johnston:
I think that... what I guess I think is my strength is that I sort of went from being almost what I feel like is the most fearful type of person you could be about what it is that I do now, so I'm trying to... my ultimate goal would be for everybody who is very to sort of scared of this as a physical activity is to get them across that bridge, I guess, and explain. And part of that is explaining why all of the... or not why, but all of the ways that you're being misled on the other side of that bridge, where you're like, "If I just do enough cardio and avoid enough carbs, and do everything that my Peloton instructor says, I'm going to get there."
Casey Johnston:
And I think that that is, a lot of that stuff is very oriented around keeping you in a sort of vicious cycle of having a harder and harder time doing this, or it sort of gives minimal results, but it isn't sustainable. Or it's built around sort of fast results, but that's not sustainable, and what we actually want is something sustainable and something that makes us feel good, and something that has... I think people are more interested in results in terms of functionality and how they feel in their bodies than they think that they are. I think if someone went out and tried to market an exercise class based on, "This'll help your lower back pain," people will be like, eh. But if it's like, "It'll help you lose 10 pounds," the signups are full.
Casey Johnston:
But I think... I don't want to promise anything is going to cure anyone's lower back pain, but I think there's a way to go about exercise and food that is much better supported and built into strength training than people think. People think strength training is about wanting to be a football player. It is a lot more than that. And I just want people to see that, and I want them to see all of the limitations of the things that they think are way better solutions than they actually are, in my informed opinion, but my opinion nonetheless.
Nick Caruso:
Your extraordinaire opinion.
Casey Johnston:
Yes.
Nick Caruso:
We're taking up a lot of your time just jawing away about this, but I wonder if we can kind of wrap up-
Casey Johnston:
I'm the one who's jawing, I feel like. But sorry.
Nick Caruso:
Well I wasn't going to say it. So JD, I want to make sure you get in any burning questions you have for Casey.
JD DiGiovanni:
Oh no, yeah. I think as the gear nerd who is also just looking at bumper plates and squat racks, my general questions are answered. But just huge fan of the newsletter. Stoked to see that it was continued after kind of moving on from VICE, and just very stoked to have you on.
Casey Johnston:
Thank you.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, we could go on, and we have other stuff to cover with you right now, but we could go on and on about this. I think for anyone who's interested, anyone listening who's interested in any aspect of what Casey has done, does, is talking about, any of the gear, whatever. Check out the links wherever you're listening to this, because there's a lot down there. But if you are somehow not familiar with how podcasts work and are just tuning in, our guest is Casey Johnston. She's heading up a new project called She's A Beast. It's a newsletter you can subscribe to and dispel some myths about lifting, and get swole alongside her journey. Well thank you for all that. I'm sorry to rush through, but maybe we can have you back on for some tips and tricks another time.
Casey Johnston:
I'm happy to come back. I love to talk, as you can tell.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I mean, we're only halfway through, so maybe don't commit to anything yet. So let's move onto a second segment here that is straight up product news. It's our raison d'être, as they say. This week, Amazon, a company we're all familiar with, announced a slate of new hardware products. This includes new doorbells and a thermostat, smart stuff. A big wall mount-able Echo display. A very dubious robot we may cover in a second. But specifically want to talk about the Halo View, which is an $80 fitness tracker that takes the place of the companies Halo Band. The Halo View features a display, an AMOLED display where the Band had no display, and it syncs with new services that Amazon launched concurrently. These are, there's a fitness video platform, and a nutrition tracking platform cleverly named Halo Fitness and Halo Nutrition respectively. And Casey, though I'm guessing you'll have an opinion or two about this and other fitness trackers and services, I want to go to JD first, because I know he's going to have some takes. So JD, gut reaction to Halo View, Fitness, Nutrition, suite?
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. Essentially it's, the only thing that these things really have to offer that's any new on the market, if you're kind of vaguely familiar with fitness tracking, is just that they're cheaper. This is, the Halo View is essentially the kind of... of course I'm now forgetting the name. The very common Fitbit tracker.
Nick Caruso:
The Fitbit? Yeah.
JD DiGiovanni:
Right, yeah. It's just a Fitbit, but it's cheaper. And their Halo Band is Whoop but it's cheaper. If you're not familiar, Whoop is a big and very popular activity tracker. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's something that's just, it's hard to feel too strongly either way about these in some ways. I think my initial reaction when I feel a little confused about products coming out is just to ask myself, okay, is this a force for good in the world, or is it a force for bad? And I don't think it's necessarily a force for bad, but I don't think I have a lot to be excited about about these things either. They seem to just... mainly the thing that they seem to be offering is more vertical integration into Amazon's huge ecosystem, and if that's something that's appealing to you, then go with God. But outside of that, I don't really know. I mean, it makes me even wonder why they even do these big presentations to roll these things out. They're truly that uninteresting to me.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think there is a broader question that's kind of worth maybe getting to in a moment, about what the point of fitness trackers are, and whether they actually make us any happier or healthier. I think there's probably something to be had kind of on either end of that, but yeah. I mean, that's my hot take about these things, is that if you're looking to save a bit of money and you're into fitness tracking, then these might be for you. But otherwise, they're not bringing a whole lot of new stuff to the table.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty solid summation. Casey, I'm not sure I've even seen your wrists, but I don't know, are you a fitness tracker? Not currently?
Casey Johnston:
I'm free. [inaudible 00:38:06] free.
Nick Caruso:
No shackles.
Casey Johnston:
I have someone behind me somewhere. Let's see. I have a Whoop somewhere in my house, I have the Fitbit Luxe. It has maybe some cat hair on it.
Nick Caruso:
Oh look at that, that's fancy.
Casey Johnston:
I like the thing. I always end up getting a rash, or a skin situation underneath it, and then I take it off, and then I never put it back on. I think your point about the presentations is interesting, because I think it's a common mistake that these companies make, where they see Apple make big presentations, and they're like, "The big presentation is what gets the people going." And it's like, it's not though. I hearken back to the Microsoft Surface presentation. I forget if it was the first. I think it was the second sort of big one, where it had the 21 degree kickstand. Maybe it was the first one. Was it 21 degrees? Do you remember this? They were making such a big deal out of the kickstand.
JD DiGiovanni:
I don't.
Nick Caruso:
That's a deep cut.
Casey Johnston:
And they were like, making a big deal out of some product feature is what gets the people going, and this is, very much smacks to me of that. Did you ask me a question? You only asked me if I had fitness trackers. I don't.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah no, you're a pro at just running with stuff. I like that. But I mean, what's your take on them in general? I think JD kind of summed up what this launch and release, reveal, whatever you want to call it, sort of means for the product world. But as our seasoned pro here, what is your take on people using these to achieve goals or in general, or what?
Casey Johnston:
Okay, here's the-
Nick Caruso:
Tool or toy I think is kind of the question.
Casey Johnston:
Here's the thing. I think that a big component of sort of learning to take care of yourself, or change things about your health or your habits, is the sort of first step is noticing what it is that you're doing already. So a fitness tracker does that. It automates some of that for you. It will... you don't have to physically, mentally write down how many steps you take every day. It just tells you, so it's great for that. It does that very well. Helps people notice.
Casey Johnston:
As far as achieving goals, I think there's even research that has shown that it's not that effective as an ongoing tool for supporting someone's journey, that the whole thing is a bit more complex than do you use a fitness tracker or not. For some people, they really stick, and I know that I know at least a handful of people who are for instance really into the Apple fitness classes, so depending on the quality of those they may get some traction out of that. But the device itself is mixed. Tool or toy, I think it's a tool, but with more limitations than I think people realize, and more limitations than Amazon or whoever would want to acknowledge.
Nick Caruso:
That's fair. Yeah, I think that's super fair. I mean, the idea of just awareness has always struck me as kind of the reason these things are valuable, so I don't know if you needed anyone to agree with you, but I do. But that, these-
Casey Johnston:
I mean, I don't think this is a controversial take though, either. It's pretty supported. We've seen, they've been around for a while now. We get it.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. So it's this, it's fitness, it's sleep. Even things like in a car, being able to track your own mileage with the little computer thing. That all serves to make you more aware of what's going on, and from there you need to make a choice, and you need to sort of do the thing. So that's a nice sort of philosophical take on it.
JD DiGiovanni:
Maybe I'm too head in the clouds here about this, but I'm not even sure if that's the right metaphor, but we can just roll with it.
Nick Caruso:
I'll bleep it out.
JD DiGiovanni:
Please. Actually just went on a swear word laden tirade. Sounds better. But yeah, I guess there's something about the ubiquity of fitness tracking, and honestly the ubiquity of being able to track so much about our lives now, that I think you're totally right, Casey. I mean, you can be able to track your habits more easily, and I think that can be really positive in a lot of contexts. But the more time I spend with tech and the more I've grown up with it, the more I feel like my life is better with less of it. And I wonder even too if there's... and again, this is maybe me just kind of riffing too hard, or having a too negative outlook in general about technology in our lives, but I do wonder if the cheaper these things get and the more ubiquitous they are, the more that folks will regard them as being almost like a necessary step in order to get into being more fit and making better decisions about their health and how they live their lives and their habits.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think I may be ginning up my own concern about this stuff here, but there's something about the ubiquity of these things, specifically in the CrossFit community. People are all about the Whoop, and there's a part of me that's just like, you can just do some squats and go on a run, or do whatever. You don't have to strap this sucker on your wrist and constantly check what's going on in order to be healthy. But I don't know. Am I being too cautious here, or too negative here about these things and the role that they play in people's fitness?
Casey Johnston:
I don't think you are at all. I actually hadn't thought of it in those specific terms, as people coming to see them as necessary just to even sort of get started with this whole thing. I do think that would be so bad, if that were the case. I mean, hopefully I think they would get sort of commodified before we really got to that point, where it wasn't $80, and then I don't even know if there's a monthly fee for the service or whatever.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it's a few bucks.
Casey Johnston:
But... go ahead.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. To build on that, I also will never tire of a discussion that's like there's too much technology surrounding right now.
Casey Johnston:
I know, are you guys allowed to say this? I was like, I am very... as somebody who comes from tech writing, I feel like I hate tech more than almost every tech writer that I know, but maybe except for you guys. But how are you out here on Gear Patrol the podcast, [crosstalk 00:45:22].
JD DiGiovanni:
We're all about making-
Casey Johnston:
You're all about the gear.
JD DiGiovanni:
It's all about making the right decisions about the right tools for your life, right?
Casey Johnston:
Okay, interesting.
JD DiGiovanni:
And sometimes that means less stuff.
Casey Johnston:
That's what I like. That's the approach that I want to take. I am a sell on the concept of a fitness tracker, personally. I'm like, they can be helpful to some people, we've seen it in certain contexts. I've never found it useful, I would never buy one for myself, I would never get an Apple Watch unless I wanted a watch that looked like the Apple Watch, and that's kind of it for me. I think they're so off base about a lot of stuff in terms of the fitness features, when they are reminding you to stand up. I'm like, I don't really think that's how anything should work. We shouldn't be tied to desks, or life shouldn't be built in a way that we have to be reminded by a watch in order to stand up. Our society... I don't want to cop out and say society about everything, but that I feel like speaks to a problem with how our lives are structured, that it feels sad to me and upsetting that we have to have a watch buzz for us to die less soon.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, like why are we sitting down to begin with? That's the question. And I think it's noble that JD says it's what's drives him, is the decision to find the right product. Mine is just self loathing. All of this. This entire thing about just eschewing tech-
JD DiGiovanni:
Let's go.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. All right, good. I think we've said our piece on Amazon. We've done a big presentation on our own opinions, so let's move onto story numero three. It's the last story of the pod today. We talk a lot about electric vehicles at Gear Patrol. We've done it a lot on the podcast. I do it a lot in my daily life, which is probably no surprise to people. And also, fuels my self loathing that I just mentioned. But we've also talked specifically about the Rivian R1T, the electric pickup here a lot. And until now, it's all been expectation and anticipation, but journalists have finally gotten significant seat time in the R1T, and this week their reviews dropped all over the web, including one very thorough rundown by our very own Will Sabel Courtney. But needless to say, they are almost to a one glowing across the board. This is like a certified fresh vehicle.
Nick Caruso:
And as a refresher for people who may not remember all the specs or may not know, Rivian, this all new electric vehicle company has never had a vehicle, never made anything before, and they are already filing to go public at a reported $80 billion, because they are very, very... they're promising big stuff, and it looks like they delivered. So this R1T is their pickup truck. It's about 70 grand. It's a premium truck, it's built from the ground up to perform incredibly on road and offroad. It's incredible and capable, and has incredible hardware. Cargo solutions, it's got all this lifestyle equipment. And then early next year we'll get the SUV version, the R1S. So that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I think there are a lot of ways we can go with this, but I want to start with you Casey. I'm curious what your take is, because I have no idea what your relationship to cars and trucks is. I do know you live in Brooklyn-
Casey Johnston:
You're like, "Have an opinion about this, you opinionated (beep)."
Nick Caruso:
Swole. Yeah, exactly.
Casey Johnston:
"This thing that could not be any further from your theoretical core competency."
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, but I mean, I defy you to tell me you don't have an opinion about this.
Casey Johnston:
No I do, oh, I do. I have so much to say.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, okay. Okay, bring it.
Casey Johnston:
I was worried going into the sort of run of show doc, being like, oh boy. I don't know what to say, but I didn't care.
Nick Caruso:
Oh, boy.
Casey Johnston:
And then I saw it, and I was like, perfect. No, I don't have that much to say. I mean, I think electric vehicles are so good. Speaking to the point of it being a new company... I don't think... this is my, almost entirely my imagination speaking, but I don't feel like this is that hard of a thing. I think I read the Gear Patrol review, and this thing is the shape of a truck. Is it equally powerful as... the F-150 is the number one car in America, right?
Nick Caruso:
That's right.
Casey Johnston:
Do we know it has the towing capacity? I don't think it does, right? Or the same acceleration or whatever. Car people are into these things. Does it measure up there?
Nick Caruso:
I mean, it varies. It does. I mean, it's very powerful. I mean, the nature of an electric vehicle is it uses electric motors instead of gas, right? So they just work differently, and can produce a lot of power right away, and they've just poured power into this. So very powerful, very fast, particularly compared to sort of a normal truck, like the F-150.
Casey Johnston:
Like they test, people, some of the reviews out there have tested it, and they're like, "This is real."
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it's real. It's real.
Casey Johnston:
Oh, okay. Well, proud and happy for them. I mean, I think that's like... the thing is, if they made simply a truck shaped electric vehicle and told people it was the same, I have a feeling that 95% of people who have trucks now would never find out that it wasn't as much truck, because they actually don't do truck things with their truck. They just have a truck because they like the look. They like to be the kind of person that a truck owner is. They like how it looks. It's not really to do with the functional add of a truck above every other car. So I'm like, this is great. I'm a little worried about that valuation. That's the only thing that sort of frightened me.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, seems insane.
Casey Johnston:
But I think electric vehicles are great.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, there we go. There's your opinion.
Casey Johnston:
I'm a buy on an electric vehicle.
Nick Caruso:
Just to sum it up, you had two opinions in there for sure. One was electric vehicles are good. The other was this doesn't seem that hard to do. Make a car.
Casey Johnston:
Here's the thing. I feel like this is the second time I'm saying here's the thing, but here's the thing.
Nick Caruso:
Here's another thing.
Casey Johnston:
I don't think what is... this doesn't seem like that controversial of a thing to say either, but what's holding us back from electrical vehicles is not technology, right? It's fossil fuels, and the companies that make the fossil fuel cars now, and those are kind of just in a rat king of going around chasing each other's tails, where they're like-
JD DiGiovanni:
Entirely.
Casey Johnston:
"None of us are giving up anything here." So for somebody new to come in and be like, "Here it is. This thing that can be made fairly easily." It's not cheap, but it'll get cheaper. That's amazing. I don't actually think it's that hard. We've just had all this resistance about, you would have to start a car company and probably have some intention of declaring an $80 billion valuation. That's not something that just anybody's going to do. In that sense it's hard, but if someone just did it, which they now have done, the watershed moment's going to happen, and it's happening.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, yeah. I can really relate with this idea about like, "Oh, is this thing real?" Because honestly, the electric vehicle market is so nuts that there's so much... I don't know, like Lordstown Electric, which is another EV company that was also going to be rolling out something very similar, right? A pickup truck electric vehicle. There was a lot of chicanery going on in that company, and they defrauded investors or something of the sort and they're being investigated, right? Because there's so much money in the market. Then you have that just dweeb Elon designing the corniest cars, then saying yeah, here's the Tesla truck, and it's going to release at this point, and then actually just kidding, it's going to release later. Just keeps on pushing it back. So frankly, as someone who doesn't follow automotive news as closely as I know Nick does, it was kind of surprising. It was like oh, this thing that I know has kind of vaguely been on the horizon has actually arrived, and that in and of itself is kind of surprising, because so much of this does feel uncharted.
JD DiGiovanni:
And especially for a new company that's just kind of starting off from the beginning. I am excited too that it is a truck, that hopefully... I think the same kind of feeling of relief I had about seeing the Ford F-150 come out with an electric version and being like, yes, please. Let's make the coolest trucks in the world, so people who just like trucks will just get them. Not because of any kind of, a broad sense of altruism about saving the planet. Just because they like cool trucks. That's what we've got to do.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that is such a good point. I mean, that's sort of combining both what you're saying into just the one thing that I keep rattling around. It's really good news that this truck, which is, let's call it the first electric truck essentially. The first big time electric truck. It's really good news that it is really good, because to propel the movement that has to happen, which is that electric vehicles are here, they're not going away, and in fact they are the future, because other vehicles are going away, to make that transition easier, particularly for the people you're talking about JD, and you Casey. It was like, truck people need a good vehicle to step into.
Casey Johnston:
Yes. If they had come out with a truck shaped electric car that couldn't tow enough weight, that would've been-
Nick Caruso:
Couldn't hang.
Casey Johnston:
That would've set the whole thing back another decade, so yes, I was also just, when the electric F-150 came out I was like, thank God. It looks cool, and met the approval of the few truck people who I know. They were excited about it. Not that they're maybe the most traditional truck people, but people who care about trucks, they were into it. And I breathed a sigh of relief I think at that.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it is, I mean it's such... I could harp on this for a lot longer than we're going to spend recording, but the idea that someone would stick to their guns with an internal combustion truck in the face of something that's as now not just on paper, just in real life, as incredible as this is... and I say this as someone who owns a Jeep. This is incredible. This is very good news. This is a good thing.
Casey Johnston:
What's the deal with this in terms of fuel? If you plug it into an EV space, do you pay for that? I actually don't know. See, I know almost nothing about this.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, you have to pay to charge it up, or people will have a charger installed in their home and suck electricity off the grid, but it's not as much. The problem with electric cars is that, where does the electricity come from, is the biggest thing. So if we're actually moving toward a future where we are fossil fuel-less in producing energy, and it is, renewable energy is charging our electric cars that also don't use fuel, so that's ideal. That's ideal future state.
Casey Johnston:
Right, versus a coal plant, which I think is less [crosstalk 00:58:21] case.
Nick Caruso:
Dino DNA.
Casey Johnston:
I wonder how it compares though on cost though, I think that was my question.
Nick Caruso:
Lower.
Casey Johnston:
Great.
Nick Caruso:
Sold.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, but it is damn expensive though. They're talking $68,000 or something for this car. And I was looking at other, the prices for other pickup trucks. My God. They're luxury vehicles.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah. I mean, how much is an F-150, like a regular F-150? It's not that much, but it's not cheap.
JD DiGiovanni:
Oh, they're all... I mean, I think the base, Nick might know better than I, but the base models are somewhat more accessible. But folks often don't get that base model.
Casey Johnston:
No, they love to drive a fancy ass F-150.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, yeah. It seems to me definitely, I don't know. I love that America's idea of a luxury vehicle is just a super tricked out pickup truck that you drive to the grocery store with, and then drive to your real estate job. But there's not a lot of hay being thrown in the back of that thing, but it is in the commercials. So long as you can buy into the vibe it's all good. I do have a question for you though, Nick. You like offroading, right? You're an offroad Jeep guy?
Nick Caruso:
I've been offroad.
Casey Johnston:
He's dabbled.
JD DiGiovanni:
Okay. Yeah, you dabbled in a little bit.
Casey Johnston:
No 45 pound plates, but yeah, I get in the dirt sometimes.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, you get in dirt. Everyone, all these reviews talking about this car, talking about how easy it was to drive in really difficult offroad conditions, does that cut at the purity of... I mean, purity in big air quotes here, of driving offroad? I mean does that cut, take away from some of that experience? Because I know that, I mean this is a big thing car people talk about all the time, is that personality of vehicles has been lost as automatic transmissions and power steering, and a lot of different stuff have been introduced to cars to make them easier to drive for more people, and frankly safer. But it's sucked away some of the personality. Is there a little bit of you that's a little sad that this thing is so good?
Nick Caruso:
I hadn't thought of it. For listeners, I just took a deep breath in and looked out the window to contemplate that question. Maybe a little. I mean, sometimes I do just sit and think about not being able to buy a manual transmission car when I'm old, and can find a toy. And I like my Jeep a lot, and there will always be purists, and there are any number of reasons to really like a mechanical vehicle, particularly offroad. It's fun. They're fun to work on. They're going to break. That's kind of part of it. But I think by and large, in terms of adventuring offroad whether you're just mudding or doing actual over landing kind of stuff, the prime directive is to be able to do it. And anything you can do to be able to do it better and easier is in the plus column. And I mean, this just, the way this truck and others like it, others that will come out that are like it will follow in its steps, I think it's only good news.
Nick Caruso:
I mean, Will, our automotive editor, Will Sabel Courtney, reviewed the Jeep 4xe, the Wrangler 4xe hybrid that can... he was like, "There's nothing compares to being able to offroad under electric power." It's crazy. And to think about it like, this computer that can be a badass rock crawler, that's super cool. I'm not getting rid of Jeep, though. Out of my cold, dead fingers.
Casey Johnston:
So the whole thing with it is that it's really good at... it's better at offroading than you could be with a manual car, that's what's being said?
Nick Caruso:
Not me, Casey, but some people.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, it seems as if it is-
Casey Johnston:
The theoretical average guy trying to offroad, okay.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. The thing I want to experience with one of these cars is apparently the sensation of, it's so quiet because there's no combustion engine that you can literally sneak up on animals, and just hear the crunching of dirt underneath. And it sounds like an ambient track I'd put on when I'm having a hard time going to sleep.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I mean, whatever gets you in the electric truck, you know? That's what we're all aiming for. Well good. Casey, I'm glad we sort of found something that wasn't totally out of your ballpark, but was something that you're not going to sneak into your backyard and cover with a tarp either.
Casey Johnston:
Yes, I have opinions about everything. I like to think that I'm not, that I have no opinion on some things. I think those things are few, though.
Nick Caruso:
That's just your opinion, man. Well good, that's a good place to put a pin in it then. That is it for this episode. We made a nice, long one here. We've got some talkers this week.
Casey Johnston:
I know. Feel free to edit me if that becomes necessary in the process. I don't know how long you normally go.
Nick Caruso:
Nope. No editing. I'm going to-
Casey Johnston:
You just throw it up online.
Nick Caruso:
I have to bleep one word I think, just for our more sensitive listeners, and that was your fault.
JD DiGiovanni:
Babies.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, bunch of babies. All those kids that are screaming outside JD's window. Well yeah, so that's it. But yeah, we've taken a lot of time, and I really appreciate your time in particular Casey. And listeners, thank you for listening. If, like I mentioned before, if you want any information about anything we talked about, whether it's something Casey mentioned, any of her previous articles, links to her, you can find a link to sign up for her newsletter She's A Beast. All that's down below. It's on the website, wherever you're listening to this. And while you're subscribing to things, make sure to subscribe to this podcast because you love it, and then take an extra second to drop a five star rating so we can keep the lights on and validate ourselves, with maybe sort of fend off some of that self loathing.
Nick Caruso:
You can also hit us up on social media. Our handle everywhere is GearPatrol, it's one word. Or, and/or, you can email us at podcast@gearpatrol.com. I will read those emails, and if you have anything you want to say to Casey that you for some reason can't say to her directly through all of her many modes of communication, I will be happy to pass it along. So JD, of course a pleasure as always, and Casey, just thank you a huge ton for taking time today. It's really a pleasure to talk to you, and great to meet you.
Casey Johnston:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, we may have to make good on having you back, because there's a lot we didn't cover.
Casey Johnston:
Great, I'm ready. More opinions coming up.
Nick Caruso:
No. No opinions. Just answer our questions and move on. All right, great. Well everyone else, thank you for listening. For Gear Patrol, I am Nick Caruso, and until next time, take care.