In this episode, our Home Editor Will Price talks through everything you need to know when buying an office chair. Whether you're in the market to furnish a home office, or returning to an office soon, what you sit on bears a huge amount of consideration. Sitting still for sustained periods is categorically unhealthy, and your office chair needs to at the very least mitigate those ill effects. But what features should an office chair have to optimize our seating position and provide proper physical support? Where should you get an office chair? And why–WHY–do they cost so much, often as much as a thousand dollars? After testing out dozens and dozens of office chairs for Gear Patrol, Will has plenty of answers. Will runs through all the dos, don'ts, maybes, and absolutely-nots of buying and sitting in office chairs: all the info you need to arm yourself for a purchase, or at least to understand how your current chair is affecting your body.
Here's everything you need to arm yourself for a purchase, or at least to understand how your current chair is affecting your body.
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Featured:
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Absolutely Everything You Need to Know Before Buying an Office or Desk Chair
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Nick Caruso:
This is The Gear Patrol podcast. In this episode, our home editor Will Price talks through everything you need to know when buying an office chair. Whether you're in the market to furnish a home office or returning to an office soon, what you sit on bears a huge amount of consideration. Sitting still for sustained periods is categorically unhealthy and your office chair needs to at the very least mitigate those ill effects. But what features should an office chair have to optimize our sitting position and provide proper physical support? Where should you get an office chair? And why, why do they cost so much? Often as much as $1,000.
Nick Caruso:
I asked Will all of those questions and more. After testing out dozens and dozens of office chair for Gear Patrol, he settled on plenty of answers. Will runs through all the dos, don'ts, maybes and absolutely nots of buying and sitting in office chairs. All the info you need to arm yourself for a purchase, or at least to understand how your current chair is affecting your body. By the way, if you're enjoying the podcast, we'd appreciate you subscribing and giving us a rating. Those five stars are really helpful and get more people listening. But for now, here's Will. I'm Nick Caruso and I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. Will, what makes a good office chair, point blank?
Will Price:
I almost opened this podcast with an enormous cough right into the mic. Excuse me.
Nick Caruso:
And, you can end it that way.
Will Price:
You know what doesn't make a good office chair? Is those racer gamer chairs you see on Twitch streams and everything. I'll just come out and just shit on those briefly. That is not an office chair and I think I just want to make that point quickly. And I say quickly I'm going to probably say it 100 different times and I'm sure I'll go on some sort of heated rant about it where you have to blip the expletive out, the word but, so that doesn't make a good office chair. So if you're looking for a good office chair, simply look for something that doesn't look like that, is my first bit of advice.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, that reminds me, I follow this Twitter account that's like Zillow Gone Nuts or something. I don't remember what it's a bunch of-
Will Price:
It's a wonderful account.
Nick Caruso:
You know it? The crazy ads for homes and there's this massive $15 million Island Compound or something the other day and one of the pictures featured an office with one of those lime green and black gaming chairs behind the desk and it seemed wrong.
Will Price:
I don't know words I can use to explain how hard my head is shaking right now. But just ignore it, yeah avoid it. Do everything you can to get away from it.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, well, I do want to... Maybe we can turn to that when you've really warmed up? But if that's a bad office chair, then what makes a good one? I assume there are many elements but there has to be sort of one way to sum that up.
Will Price:
Yeah, I think the number one thing I tell people in context, half my job now is sitting in different chairs and reviewing them so I'm not just making this up. But adjustability is the term that I think the most about when I'm reviewing, when I'm looking at chairs to potentially get to review or when people ask me, "Oh, I have $500 and I'm thinking about these chairs, which one?" So adjustability of things, the obvious things first, up and down, the arms moving not just up and down, but the arms also moving outward and inward or changing the angle even. A lot of newer chairs do that. In the recline, can you change the tilt tension? So when you recline it's doesn't feel you're falling off the edge of the earth, but it's kind of a nice, easier recline. Which is all of these things work towards... And I should also mention the seat pan adjustable or just the seat adjusting is also important, forward and back and all these kind of things. All of these things work towards making sitting less bad, which is something we should talk about.
Nick Caruso:
Well, that's the next question. But I want to make sure we tie in some other elements of the chair to that, and I will. But yes, sitting is terrible for our bodies. There is a lot of literature, there are a lot of studies and a lot of you know medical professionals and health professionals who just rail on sitting. And it's sort of odd to have a product here that optimizes sitting. So how can office chairs mitigate those ill effects?
Will Price:
I was going to say mitigate is the word, they're pain mitigators, right? And so sitting for extreme periods to extreme six to eight hours consecutively, you mentioned some adverse health effects. And we're not just talking about circulation issues or deep vein thrombosis or something. You're talking about heart disease, dementia, obesity, diabetes, all of these things are increased risk is linked with prolonged periods of sitting. So it is bad. And I know a lot of younger people hear the same thing, "Oh, that's whatever, it's not to be worried about." But it is. Well, with that in mind, what we're looking for here beyond just adjustability, and when you're sitting your entire body is shaped, and your head is essentially a cinder block in weight. It's sitting on top of a very fragile system of bones and skeleton, bones and muscles and tendons and whatnot.
Will Price:
So if your back, your neck and your head are misaligned, you're creating an enormous amount of stress on your body. And of course you're not feeling it initially. But when people say the back is sore or when people say the hips are sore, their knees, the joints, whatever. It's not always linked back to just sitting on your ass for too long, but it can often be linked to that and it can be made less bad. I'm going to keep using less bad.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, mitigate.
Will Price:
Less bad by sitting in a chair that suits a human body rather than a chair that [inaudible 00:06:44] just for purely aesthetic purposes.
Nick Caruso:
Sure, so you're really talking about mitigating the ill effects of sitting by sort of... A typical chair's an L-shape, and that is not what an optimized chair is. It's responds more to the human body talking about the shape of your lumbar and supporting I suppose even side to side and certainly your back to keep your spine in alignment and keep it from cracking like a Thompson submachine gun like mine does when I stand up.
Will Price:
Yeah, you mentioned the L-shape, just think of a dinner chair or something. A human body isn't static. If you just try... I can't remember who I was discussing with, I think it might have been an ergonomics professional at Herman Miller who makes a lot of good task chairs and they were telling me, "Just try to sit completely still in a dinner chair made of wood or aluminum or whatever, for more than 90 seconds." It's extremely difficult because the chair itself is not comfortable. Your body isn't supposed to be static in that shape for any period of time. So what these chairs are doing, even swiveling is a huge part of that. If people saw my webcam right now, they would see me sliding side to side moving [crosstalk 00:08:11].
Nick Caruso:
Wildly erratic.
Will Price:
Yeah. So having a chair that kind of moves as you move and continues to support you through that movement, it's huge and again it is making this weirdly mundane and destructive activity less so.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it really is horrible. And right now, I should have said up top, right now sitting for a lot of people has become even bigger part of their life or at least they're paying a lot more attention to it, right? As we're just kind of sitting in our homes as things have closed down.
Will Price:
It almost feels like a parody to discuss the sitting as this great evil. And I think it's a cliche whenever something, health professionals come to new consensus on over time, people will say, "Oh, this X is the new smoking." But it really is fair to say in this case that this is something that you should be considering. And I should say we're talking about chairs that can make the experience less harsh on your body, but also just putting on your phone every 90 minutes, a quick walk around your apartment or your house or take a lap whatever. Things like that would [crosstalk 00:09:30].
Nick Caruso:
Stretch. Yeah, move.
Will Price:
They're utmost importance.
Nick Caruso:
So all of those considerations go into what we deem, what you deem the best office chairs. We have this buying guide that I know I watch you update constantly. Which is quite a feat because, like you say, you're sitting in a lot of chairs, you're surveying a lot of products because that product space is so huge. So there's a lot to consider when you're picking recommendations. But can you answer the question, is there a single best office chair?
Will Price:
No, I don't think I can answer. But the way the guide is tailored and the way I think most discussions should go and are more useful going is sort of what is your budget? What are you looking for? How much you're using it? What are your expectations? Kind of thing. Because if you're planning on extending your COVID work from home life to become a permanent thing, working from home for the foreseeable future, it is very, very, very worth it. And you said for example, you said, "I want to spend $400 or $500." I would really say if you're going to be permanently sitting in your office thinking to invest in something, or maybe be willing to spend a couple a hundred extra dollars. And we can talk about that where you get variety. I think you asked me before this, why are some of the really good office chairs so expensive? And we'll talk about it.
Will Price:
So if you do plan on using the product that you're buying every day for a long period of time, its worth kind of splurging. For other people not so much. And yeah, there's also things like physical traits to keep in mind. Some people like me are not very tall, right? And if you're a shorter person some chairs are better for you than others. Or if you're extremely tall person like my boss who's 6'4" or whatever. So sometimes if he's tested or made notes on the same chair I have, we have completely different ideas of whether it was comfortable in the short, medium or long-term.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, he's my boss too, just to be clear. Then I know you're listening. So then, what in this guide though, there are over 20 chairs listed. Can we start by kind of summing up the category by talking about the three sort of top picks? You mentioned the price of chairs and that's a big factor here. I can hear you typing, are you looking them up?
Will Price:
I was just making sure I'm looking at the guide, yeah. As you say I update it constantly so I have to remind myself what is currently my top three picks.
Nick Caruso:
Right. And so to your point, the first standout feature of this, the thing that leaps up to me and makes me cringe a little bit is the price. Because, we rank the top choices in our buying advice in three categories. So they just get this. If you just need a chair, or you need a product that's the one you get. The step up is a bigger spend and the smart spend is a more affordable option. The step up in this case is a $1,000, the just get this is over $400. And that could make some people bolk a little bit when they're looking here. So can you talk about these picks and kind of why they cost what they do?
Will Price:
Yeah, the first thing to think about is just sort of purely I guess, utilitarian or just think of it from a production standpoint. Your everyday chair, the lounger you have in your living room, or even sofas or whatnot, most of the time, 99% of time don't have anything to them except for frames and cushions and fabric, right? Whereas these products are, before you even consider design and warranties and performance, they have all sorts of moving parts, they have mixtures of materials. A lot of them are made with really high density mesh, which is far more expensive to produce and to stretch and put onto these products than something just like a cotton fabric that you'd find on a sofa. So it's the first thing is just the materials, the mixture of them and the moving parts. That is one what is just to keep in mind why it's not going to be the cost of your dining chair we talked about earlier.
Will Price:
And the second bit is that these are performance tools, or at least that's how the companies that make them view them. They're things that are yes you're engaged in what we think of traditionally as a static activity in sitting, but the reality is you're constantly fidgeting, you're constantly moving. And the chairs especially, or the ones that are worth buying, I should say, are meant to mimic your movement, are meant to support your movement, et cetera. So, the number one pick which we've had, I think is the number one pick for maybe close to a year now is a chair from Steelcase. It's called the Series 1, it's $415. It goes on sale every once in a while.
Will Price:
It has a nice blend of the price that isn't physically painful to look at and the features that you would want from high-end chairs while also being backed by a very, very, very serious company in [inaudible 00:15:05]. So it's sort of an amalgam of things. But even it, admittedly even it is not perfect for everyone. I think we note in the piece, it is best for people who meet sort of average height to shorter. My boss or some of the other co-workers who are the tall end might sit in and be like, "This is not going to do it for me because the back isn't quite as high as it could be."
Nick Caruso:
And also is chair for ants.
Will Price:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
But the second is also from Steelcase where you're talking about the step up. So the Steelcase Gesture is, it's base price is $1,000. So what separates-
Will Price:
It's a serious chair.
Nick Caruso:
... yeah, what separates those two by $600?
Will Price:
Yes, the first and most obvious thing is the materials used in the construction of them. So the Gesture itself is obviously more premium. From the cushion in the back and the seat to the upholstery over that, to the steel frame, the legs, the feet or I should say the base and the feet, all of that is more solid. So we're talking perhaps aluminum a lot of cases, I know that's aluminum a lot of cases, steel, maybe rubber wheels, et cetera. So those are all just material improvements. And those things are not just aesthetic, of course they make the product last longer.
Will Price:
Because they're moving parts in this chair, the more moving parts you have in a product, the more ways it could break. Better materials ensures that those things will not break as often or what have you. So you're kind of insuring yourself in the longer run. And then the second thing is if you look at these two products side by side, just their spec sheet, or just looking at ergonomics, the Gesture it comes with more. The arms move more, the back itself is structured in a way that sort of will bend with your back, right? As you know, if I wanted to lean over and look at my dog sitting behind me, all those things are supported. So it is more than twice the price.
Will Price:
To me if you are one of those people that are going to be using a chair every day, and sitting down in it for six to eight hours every day at your house. Or if you're getting a chair maybe for your office because they provide you with a good chair, God bless you, it is worth that money. You're not just talking about a little bit of back pain, you're talking about a whole host of other risks that can come with that. So yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. And then the third is by the company Branch, which is a budget pick. But I've had the pleasure of sitting in a Branch for a while. It's a good chair, right? I'm sitting in a different one by the company X-Chair now, it's much more complex and has the mesh and all that. But is the difference then, can I extrapolate from what you've just said, the difference between this $250 I think chair by Branch and say $1,000 chair, for me if I've taken size into consideration and that comes up, basically how I'm using it? How much I'm using it? Do I have to weigh in how much I care about my future health? Is that what I'm thinking about with this?
Will Price:
Yeah, there's also, if you're not in a position to spend $1,000 on a chair I wouldn't disparage you for that. But it's what it has that other chairs at its price point don't have, or what it has going for it that others in that range $250, $300 that kind of area is a more sturdy base. So steel construction is sort of fundamental to it, to the foundation under the seat. Whereas, if you look at a lot of chairs of that price range it's almost purely plastic. And I think a lot of that is because the company itself [inaudible 00:18:59] too, inside baseball and sell office chairs. The company itself used to be a B2B company so they only sold chairs and desks and whatever to offices. But as the pandemic began, I think Smartly was like okay, probably not going to sell a lot of office chairs to offices, they sort of pivoted to a more classic direct or a more consumer friendly, direct consumer model.
Nick Caruso:
They branched out.
Will Price:
Yeah, there you go. So the prices themselves are really nice for that reason because they were... The company itself was working on different margins, as in different business model. So I think I mentioned somewhere in this piece that I think this chair could very well be $150 or $200 more. The back mesh is really nice and breathable but doesn't sag. The lumbar support is actually supportive rather than just sort of being there which a lot of cheap office chairs they have the appearance, the lumbar support system is there but you lean back into it and you either don't feel it or you feel it like a knife driving into your lower back. Those are the notes that I think you can really only get if you've actually sat or tested the chairs. Yeah, it's a wonderful product. And I think it beats out pretty much everything in that sort of low-end price range.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, and those three in addition to being just sort of the picks that we recommend, first sort of sum up, that seems to be kind of the three, it's literally the three sort of tiers of price. And kind of represent the others in their sort of range. In a minute Will, I want to ask you a little bit about ergonomics. But right now let's take an opportunity for a quick ad break. We'll be right back. You also talked about... You're talking about ergonomics and lumbar. And I remember a couple years ago now, it might have even been for the Gesture. Were you talking about active ergonomics are some terms similar to that?
Will Price:
Yeah. Some deep, very, very deep office chair design, nerd stuff. Basically it's active versus passive ergonomics. So you have chairs that are actively ergonomic would mean something like, you think of the Aeron, the Herman Miller chair, very famous chair. If you google it you've seen it in movies, it's the chair that people sit in. A lot of broadcasters if you watch sports, all that kind of thing, it's all over the place.
Nick Caruso:
Gear Patrol employees.
Will Price:
Gearpatrol.com yeah, everywhere. But, so it has all sorts of knobs and handles and levers you can twist and turn to adjust how it fits to you. So that's an active ergonomic chair. So it's something that you actively have to go and adjust. There's also a category of chair which is called passively ergonomic chairs. And those are chairs that have been designed more recently, and they adjust to you automatically. It requires sort of a more, I think a more advanced company, where you most often see sort of the higher end companies building them. So the Herman Millers, the Knolls, Steelcase has one. The companies that have been making task chairs and office chairs for a long time. But when you sit in them they, I don't want to use the word sense because they're not beings, but they can through a very clever use of, I don't know-
Nick Caruso:
Gyroscopes or something?
Will Price:
... math and science and counterbalances and things that are difficult for me to explain. They account for your weight, for the pressure that you're putting on the chair, maybe your hips are wider than others, all of these different things. And they can adjust things like tilt tension, adjust some cases height, adjust all of these things automatically by themselves without you needing to turn handles and whatnot. Most people don't buy them for their home office to be honest, most of the time they're bought by offices for the office, especially if you're a hot-desking office or no one has established seating but everyone comes in and you just kind of pick your spot for the day and it's common for that. But I still think they're kind of cool. So they're.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it's more of a one size fits all-
Will Price:
Yeah, or tries to.
Nick Caruso:
... in a high tech way, yeah. So we're talking about prices a lot and kind of finding what works. If we were thinking about all the needs we have personally, and our budget and all that. And let's say hypothetically I still I'm a little kind of hesitant to pull the trigger on these. What about a used office chair? You have any insights into thinking about picking up a second hand one of these?
Will Price:
I think it's a very, very, very clever way to get a high-end chair than you might be willing to buy at retail new. Mentioned Aeron, used Aerons are very common kickoffs, half the price if not less than that than a new Aeron. Pretty much all the top-end chairs from those brands I mentioned people will sell used versions. I have very little issue with it. Ideally you would get to kind of see it in person before you cop. Especially if it's a mesh chair, you want to see, is the mesh undamaged? So for example was the guy who owned it before you, did he have a pocket knife that stuck through and struck through the mesh? Or had the mesh begun sagging at all, or if it's cushion, has the cushion been completely squashed or whatever. Things like that.
Will Price:
But for the most part, especially the nicer chairs which is what most people will focus on I think if there's shopping used, the guts of the chair, the recline, the tension, most of the adjustability will remain intact in the long-term, you just need to check for cushions and the backs of the seat and things like that.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, typical. We were talking about the more complex, the more expensive. There's kind of luxury appointments in a lot of ways. Checking how [crosstalk 00:25:23]-
Will Price:
I'm sure google used Aeron right now, so forget my keyboard.
Nick Caruso:
No.
Will Price:
Used Aeron chair. Yeah, I'm seeing used Aeron from a few different websites at for about $490. The retail for a new Aeron is more than twice that. So, how used? That will be dependent on who's selling it to I'd imagine, but if you can vet it or have some assurance that if it is a piece of trash you can send it back, I think it's a wonderful idea. I know some people have qualms about buying used, but I don't see the huge issue, give it a good clean when you get it if you're that paranoid.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. It does seem just kind of rank in the same categories like a bed or something. It's sort of a little more intimate, but yeah, if you find a good one. Kind of like buying a used car, you really have to check it out. You want to see it, it's a relatively big investment. And you're talking-
Will Price:
People will laugh at you saying that, but you're absolutely right.
Nick Caruso:
I know I'm right. All you people laughing right now I hope you've stopped and are listening again. But you're also talking about those kind of, constantly moving when we're sitting. And it reminds me of when I learned one of the major reasons you get tired after a long road trip is that, even though you're just sitting and kind of moving the wheel, is that you're constantly making micro adjustments to adjust for the physics of the car, and just your general comfort and staying aware and all that. Same thing applies to you day in and day out at your desk. So then, this is the last thing on kind of the price factor.
Nick Caruso:
We also list some super budget picks. There is I believe the least expensive on here is a chair that cost about $150. And I think that probably squares up with the least expensive chair you might find if you go to a Staples or something. Are the considerations there the same? It's the same thing we're talking about with the high-end picks, but there's just less of it? Are there any dangers or special caveats we have to think about when we're talking about a very affordable one?
Will Price:
Yeah, I think the big thing for most or for the ultra affordable picks that are $150, $125 and $175 is that, you want to find the product with the most positives while accepting that you're not buying something that will last or perform for you for five years. You're buying something that sort of more short-term, something you might have to replace. Which is a bit of a bummer but again being on a budget is a very common thing and not something everyone can help.
Will Price:
So I think what you're looking for is, for example I think our top pick for under $150 has things like a waterfall seat pan. So waterfall just meaning that the seat isn't just a flat image of the L, or the L-shape of a normal dinner chair. So this would have that seat area curves downward, so a waterfall seat. So, that helps the circulation. As the armrests go up and down, the back and headrest are mesh so you have increased breathability, you're not getting too hot in the chair. All of these things are design traits of chairs that we want to buy. But the end of the day is having sense and having used it, it is a cheap chair, in the more literal sense of the word. So I wouldn't expect it to hang around in office for years to come if I was using it every day.
Nick Caruso:
Got it. Speaking of those features is that perfect transition into this next thing I wanted to ask you about. Is different-
Will Price:
[inaudible 00:29:26].
Nick Caruso:
... and you've alluded to these already, but different features on a good office chair. There are tons of... Some chairs have a bunch of gimmicks, others have different elements that do address kind of different bodies or I don't know, sitting styles. One that comes to mind... I have two, okay? I'm going to commandeer this, my own question. The first thing is the chair I'm sitting on has these wings, the back is a wing situation. Two separate panels separated vertically and kind of a spring thing.
Will Price:
Right, the spring thing.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, they push my shoulders forward and I'm not heavy enough to push them back, but I can understand why that would be something people want, for a little extra side to side motion. But the other one, this is a must have for an office chair that I sit on, are rollerblade wheels.
Will Price:
It's huge. I think you're actually the Pope of the church of the proper rollerblade wheels for office chairs. You got me on the train as well.
Nick Caruso:
Bless you. No there is something so satisfying about zooming silently and frictionlessly across a smooth floor. Except I did have to get a rug to go under this one because my floor is very uneven. What other features do you like to look for in a chair? What are some favorites agnostic of your picks?
Will Price:
I play a lot of video games on my computer. And especially during the pandemic been hanging out, got a new computer. Playing all sorts of stuff but-
Nick Caruso:
Congratulations.
Will Price:
And I also have, bragging about the size of my window and back to back [inaudible 00:31:24]. I have a huge window next to me. It's pretty warm between intense sessions of whatever battlefield forum that we're doing.
Nick Caruso:
Will, you live in the reptile house at a zoo.
Will Price:
Exactly.
Nick Caruso:
We should be clear about that.
Will Price:
Something like that. But so I get really warm. I'm also just a warm natured person. So I really will only sit or would only consider purchasing a chair that is mesh, both on the seat and the back. The mesh just makes it so if my AC is behind me, it's blowing right through the mesh on to my back. It's keeping me cool. I don't feel like I'm going to... For example leather office chairs, I'll never understand.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that's a no go.
Will Price:
Absolutely not. Especially I'm wearing shorts, it's nice and sunny and warm and late spring New York. And if I was sitting on a leather office chair, you have the awkward sticky, weird and I just I'm-
Nick Caruso:
You pull yourself off it.
Will Price:
... I will avoid things like that, that experiences like that for the rest of my life. So all mesh is mandatory for me. To me I think everybody should try to make sure the back of their chair is mesh at the very least. Some people like more support for their butt so they get a cushion chair but that's fine. But I'm all mesh all day.
Nick Caruso:
It's a good point. This chair I have a very outfitted chair as you know. This also has now heat and massage in the lumbar which is-
Will Price:
Lord.
Nick Caruso:
... is too much probably. It's great, it's such a luxury, but it's also maybe a little overboard. But you mentioned mesh versus leather-
Will Price:
Come sit on my chair.
Nick Caruso:
... mesh versus leather and air conditioning. Last car thing is that leather seats in a luxury car are great when it has air conditioned seats. Air conditioned seats the second most wonderful advancement in car technology that has ever been made.
Will Price:
Is the first airbags?
Nick Caruso:
No.
Will Price:
Safety is absolutely not [crosstalk 00:33:34].
Nick Caruso:
Those aren't even on the top 20, no. The first is radar cruise control.
Will Price:
So, it's a conversation for another podcast.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I would say after seat belts and wheels and disc brakes and all the standard.
Will Price:
I've always rated wheels, always thought wheels were a big improvement for cars.
Nick Caruso:
Honestly, if we're being honest, top three, top three. So your chair, you sit in all these chairs. Can I put you in the hot seat so to speak, and ask you what, I came up with that just now, and ask you what you're sitting on?
Will Price:
Yeah, this is a brand called Humanscale which is another, I actually hadn't mentioned till now but I put it up there with these other top brands. There's Herman Miller, there's an Steelcase or steel Humanscale. These are all the big ones. It's a Humanscale, I thought I had made a terrible typo when I first post the story but it's called the Diffrient World, not different, but The Diffrient World. And it's named after its designer. A very famous guy, guy worth googling Niels Diffrient, not different, Diffrient.
Nick Caruso:
That's a different guy.
Will Price:
It's excellent. I'm a small, I'm 5'8", 5'9". I don't weigh that much. So it's a chair that's fit for I think for smaller folk in general. It's all mesh. It has a few very clever design features that actually is technically one of the first, actually might be the first, someone I'm sure will email me and be mad about this, but passively ergonomic chair. So if I lean back in it and you can tell it's a little bit older, because if you've heard creaking this whole podcast, it's because I'm shifting backwards. If I leaned back in the chair it does things like, the seat pan where my butt is sitting will slide forward, which lessens the tension and make sure that my whole back is supported rather than kind of putting the pressure on me to kind of keep my body in a comfortable position. And there it is, there's the creaking.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it sounds like my back, actually.
Will Price:
It is a wonderful product and I absolutely love it. I tried different chair every month, every couple months, and I always send them back and just keep my chair.
Nick Caruso:
Oh, well that there you go. Now that is an endorsement.
Will Price:
There you go.
Nick Caruso:
I'm just looking here actually, I think it's about $1,000 if-
Will Price:
No, you can get from.
Nick Caruso:
You get it get a cheaper. Original price here is $1000, when it's on sale for $700?
Will Price:
Yeah, you can go to Wayfair and they have it pretty regularly for anywhere between $750 and I've seen it as low as $550 on Way Day or their big sale days whatever, so. It is very worth that money, comes in few different colors, I don't really know all of them. But yeah, get some WD-40 to grease it up. I have not, it's my only qualm with it really.
Nick Caruso:
Great. So I feel after being on the hot seat I guess you are properly warmed up to talk about gaming chairs again. Can you tell me why they suck?
Will Price:
The gaming chair if everyone, makes sure we all have the same, if we're all imagining the same picture on, they're basically bucket seats taken out of sports car or race car and put on top of rolling wheels. Is that what you picture when you think of a gaming chair?
Nick Caruso:
Yes, absolutely. I remember, this is going to be a weird humble-brag, but I had a Lamborghini for a weekend-
Will Price:
That is humble.
Nick Caruso:
... several years ago and it came with fixed carbon fiber bucket seats, racing seats. Which means it literally they don't adjust and it's just one single piece of lightweight carbon fiber. And one of the worst experiences my body's ever had.
Will Price:
Yeah, I can safely say I've never driven a Lamborghini, maybe I've sat in one.
Nick Caruso:
Well, you got to try it Will, you got to try it.
Will Price:
Maybe just pull that one out. But the issue with just pulling a chair like that and plopping it on wheels is that, the use cases could not be more different. Yes you're sitting in both of them, but can you imagine if for example you took a really high-end ergonomic office chair, and somehow put that in a car as when you're driving. You're turning back and forth, the back is leaning constantly when you don't want it to, those are clear safety hazards many people with suffer. So a racing chair put in the same context as an office chair, makes people suffer maybe in the less dramatic way, but it is a slow and painful suffering.
Will Price:
So basically, they're okay one, and this is always been a chief complaint if anyone has made it to this point can tell, they are always totally upholstered and thick painful cotton at best, and at worst pleather. The really cheap polyurethane fake leather. So you're basically just guaranteed me to shower for an hour and a half in this chair. Say before getting to its ergonomic issues or being comfortable. So people I think get coziness confused with comfort. And some of these have they put a... I'm trying not to curse. They put a pillow-
Nick Caruso:
They do it well.
Will Price:
... on the back of the chair. It's just so silly. A chair that you're using to work or to even play video games in, this is people will ask me, "Oh, that's the best office chair, but what's the best gaming chair?" The best gaming chair is the same as the best office chair because it's the same exact use case. Unless you're, I can't think of an example where it wouldn't be the case, but if you're playing games for a few hours consecutively, you're doing the same thing. Maybe you're leaning forward more or something than you are when you're working for a few hours, right? So you need what you need if you want a good game chair is the same thing you want a good office chair which is a good thing for you because you don't have to buy two chairs. Don't buy gaming chairs.
Will Price:
I think I've written thousands of words on this website. I've turned it into my own crusade against them. There are some, if you're in for the colors in the kind of the vibes about them, there's a company called Vertagear which makes kind of the more classic gamer aesthetic gaming chair, but it does so using more task or office chair and more ergonomic design. So check them out, Vertagear. There are not many others. Companies actually, this is interesting I could literally just complain about this for so long, but even Herman Miller company, if you know the company at large, yes they make a lot of good office chairs that we talked about. But they're also the company that sells the Eames Lounge Chairs, they sell the Gucci and George Nelson and all these famous designers. Even they have dipped their toes into the game chairs world, but what they did, which I thought was clever, instead of making a gaming chair, they basically took their highest end office chair and made it all black and added some blue trim.
Will Price:
And that's pretty much it. You can compare the specs. It is 95% the same chair as... I think they have the gaming version of the Aeron as well as the Embody. The Embody is even higher and it's sort of a design marvel but it costs a month's rent. Anyway, if you want a gaming chair, just get a good office chair, it will serve dual purpose. If you want blue colors or whatever, you can get masking tape or buy something from Vertagear or a nicer piece from Herman Miller. I'm out of breath.
Nick Caruso:
That was stunning. I'm impressed. Even for you Will, I think that was some sort of record. We wound you up, we watched you go, I think that goes in unedited. Do you feel better right now? You're chewing ice, you seem stressed.
Will Price:
Just going to say I didn't mean to do that, I didn't realize I was on podcast. I feel good, I want people to spend their money wisely instead of just blindly following Twitch streamers. Which I swear, they're becoming more popular through placement and things like that. You will be better served, I don't care if you are 13 years old, or if you're 33, or 63 you'll be better served by a proper task chair that supports your lower back and keeps your spine in the correct alignment I promise you, not a pillow or racing seats.
Nick Caruso:
That is sound advice from Will Price. For all the 13-year olds listening, buy a $1,600 Herman Miller Embody desk chair to play Fortnite.
Will Price:
[inaudible 00:42:35].
Nick Caruso:
[inaudible 00:42:37] there you go. It feels sort of silly to ask anything after all that, but I do have one last question about a specific chair and then I want to kind of wrap up. But the other type of chair sitting surface, sitting thing, people sometimes get for the situation are those kneeling chairs? You know what I'm talk-
Will Price:
Oh, yeah. Or even the aerobic ball or whatever.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, what about those as alternatives?
Will Price:
I think they could be cool things to have. Instead of buying one myself for my own home office, and I sure maybe they work for a lot of people, they enjoy them. I've played with them, I would rather just have them as things in the storage closet at work that I can pull out when either I was tired of sitting in my normal chair and I want to stretch my back, or in the case of the bouncy aerobic ball which is kind of been made fun of so much I think most people have lost interest in it. If you've ever watched things like Silicon Valley, it's sort of the subject of a lot of bad startup cliches like, "We can't afford chairs but we can afford bouncy balls."
Will Price:
But things like that they're essentially moving the pressure points, so where normal chair, because of where you're being supported or what have you, you might feel pain in the center of your back because maybe you hunch forward a little bit while you work so you are putting more pressure on your neck muscles and your upper back muscles. If you sat on aerobic chairs or one of those kneeling chairs, they move where you are putting pressure, which is good for me for relief for maybe an hour or two, rather than something that I want to sit in full time. So, I would love to have them as an option at the office, I wouldn't necessarily want to have them at home. That's it, if you have tons of closet space and lots of money, I think go for it. There's no advice better when it comes to trying to solve this sitting problem, than to just adjust, sit in as many ways as you can, move as much as possible.
Will Price:
It's what every single person I've talked to in this doctors, chiropractors, people who design these chairs, they basically just want you to move as much as possible. Which is kind of counter-intuitive in a discussion about sitting. Just consider that if you are having a panic attack, I guess about the long-term effects of your 9:00 to 5:00 job.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I'm going to do that in five minutes I think. Okay, so you kind of touched on this earlier, but I want to wrap up by asking you, with a hypothetical. I walk up to you on the street and I say, "Will Price, I'm going to buy an office chair. What makes a good office chair?" And you are in a hurry, you only have time for a couple of sentences. What do you tell me?
Will Price:
People ask me this all the time on the streets, you wouldn't, no idea. What I would tell people is just look for a chair that can move the muscles the least. That [inaudible 00:45:47] arms, seat and back, up and down, side to side, wheels, everything as much as it moves. The more moves the better. That's what I would say.
Nick Caruso:
Adjustability was your-
Will Price:
Adjustability.
Nick Caruso:
... was your top recommendation at the beginning. So, that makes sense. Oh, boy, I feel like we need a break.
Will Price:
I was going to say I'm ready for a walk a [inaudible 00:46:11] all this talk about bodies alignment and the weight of our skulls and all this.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I got to call my doctor. I just actually a week or two ago, just re-watched So I Married an Axe Murderer. One of the Hallmark jokes in there is Mike Myers plays his own dad who calls his son many names regarding his huge head. So he says, watermelon on a toothpick, just kind of-
Will Price:
It's wonderful, wonderful, wonderful thing to watch and if someone hasn't watched it by the way.
Nick Caruso:
That's right. Okay Will, thank you for this run down, for your rant, for all the information, for your advice and for sitting in all those chairs for our benefit.
Will Price:
You are very welcome, yeah.
Nick Caruso:
And everybody else, really glad you tuned in today, thank you for doing so. And if you want any information about any stuff we talked about including eventually a transcript of Wills' rant about gaming chairs, you can check the show notes and the description below will have all sorts of links to the buying guide and other advice from Will and from Gear Patrol about office chairs. And I really appreciate you listening to the podcast at all. If you are a fan and you haven't done so yet, please subscribe on your platform of choice so that you can never miss an episode. And when you do that, we'd appreciate a five-star review to keep us in more people's ears, and let people join in the conversation more and more. Jog that out of rhythm.
Nick Caruso:
If you want to get in touch with us, hit us up on social media, our handle everywhere is @gearpatrol, one word. And you can email me directly at podcast@gearpatrol.com and we can dish about Wills' opinions about gamers, Twitch streamers.
Will Price:
It's great.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. And that's it for this episode. So everybody it's time, this is your reminder to get up and stretch and walk around, take a breather. Will Price, thank you for being here again.
Will Price:
Bye-bye.
Nick Caruso:
I'm Nick Caruso and until next time, take care.