We discuss our first impressions of a brand-new watch brand called Parchie, which offers dive watches specifically made for kids. Then we talk about the surprise 2022 re-launch of the cult classic Acura Integra and what it means for its segment–and for the relationship between new cars and nostalgia. Finally, we address a Vox article that details the sizable (and quite ironic) carbon impact of houseplants.
Dive watches for kids, Acura brings back a cult-classic, and your houseplants have a carbon footprint.
Episode Navigation:
Featured and Related:
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This Perfect Summer Watch Comes in Adult and Kid-Sized Versions
The Acura Integra returns for 2022
Acura Integra Returns in 2022 Acura
Market Watch: Acura Integra Type R Motor Trend
Original Integra Type R Auction Results Bring a Trailer
Nissan Reveals the Next-Generation Z
Are your houseplants actually good for the planet? Vox
Carbon Footprint Fact Sheet by the University of Michigan Center for sustainable Systems University of Michigan
EPA carbon footprint calculator EPA.gov
Nick Caruso:
I'm Nick Caruso and this is the Gear Patrol Podcast for Friday, August 20th, 2021. Today we're discussing our first impressions of a brand new watch. It's a brand called Parchie which offers dive watches specifically made for kids. We'll also talk about the surprise relaunch of the cult classic Acura Integra and what that means for the segment and for the relationship between new cars and nostalgia.
Nick Caruso:
We'll close out with a discussion about the sizable and quite ironic carbon impact of houseplants. I'm joined today by platforms editor, JD DiGiovanni. JD, howdy?
JD DiGiovanni:
Hey there. Ooh, howdy. Let me go get my hat. Hold on.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. We'll take as much time as you need for you get in costume. We also have deputy photography, which is how I'm going to be pronouncing it through the entire episode, Editor Henry Phillips. Henry, how do you?
Henry Phillips:
I've already got deputy in the title, so we can stick with howdy.
Nick Caruso:
Oh, deputized. I also want to point out, and people obviously listening, can't hear this, but we have a dog in the background there, which is heartwarming. So thank you for bringing your deputy dog. I don't know. There's a joke-
Henry Phillips:
Yeah, no, he's deputy to the regional editor.
Nick Caruso:
Great. Fine. Well, it's a beautiful muggy day in Brooklyn and we have some news to discuss. So let's get started. First, Parchie. This watch brand launched last week, guys, or this week rather. Excuse me. It is still this week, and it launched this week. It's founded by Cara Barrett, and apologize if it's pronounced Cara, though I'm pretty sure I got Barrett right.
Nick Caruso:
Barrett is a former HODINKEE staffer who launched this brand of dive watches for kids. The name Parchie, just spelled P-A-R-C-H-I-E is named after her childhood imaginary friend, which is super cute. It's a line of colorful unisex watches. They're 50 bucks each. They feature this classic dive watch design that have a fixed bezel, quartz movements, 32-millimeter cases, 30 meters of water resistance. And very appropriately they're on these nice little NATO straps. Henry, the story was shared on Slack the other day and I saw you commented on it. What's your take?
Henry Phillips:
I love this. I love this so much because it's great. Give kids the diversity of products and stuff that adults have. Why not? Let alone something that's thoughtful and adorable and affordable. So yeah, It sounds so weird. I don't know. I want to give them to someone. I want to give someone a Parchie watch because I'm sure it would be great.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I feel that. The affordability really is what struck me. I was like, "50 bucks for a nice watch for a kid? That seems pretty good."
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
JD, how are you feeling?
JD DiGiovanni:
I mean, I want one for myself. Yeah. I mean, I guess, if any family members or friends have children, I'll be that obnoxious watch guy and be like, "No, we're not doing the Timex. We're doing a Parchie watch," because they look really nice. I'm not really joking when I say I want one. I have very small wrists and I think it'd probably fit without too much of an issue. They are tastefully done.
JD DiGiovanni:
When I think kids' watch, what I was expecting when I was reading the story, was like, "Teach me how to read time," type of watch, where you have... It's like a tool for learning. It almost feels like accessories for kids, that are actually tasteful, in the same way that watches, sure, they're technically for telling time for adults, but we all have our phones in our pockets.
JD DiGiovanni:
And so, it's an accessory, ultimately. This feels like it's, I don't know, an ideal fit for the precocious kid or the uncle who wants to flex on all the other people and give them a cool watch to their nephew or something.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. Go ahead, Henry.
Henry Phillips:
No, I mean, I think that's my favorite part, the slight charming bizarreness of the idea of creating, just by association, I think with HODINKEE, the realheads kids' watch, it's something... like, "If you know you know." It becomes like a signaling device. You see a kid with the Parchie watch and you think, "Well, what is the mom or the dad wearing?" It's just feels so wacky, but also somewhat charming in some weird way.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. That's funny. That's recalling way back to JD, something you pointed out with that ochs und junior watch we talked about weeks and weeks ago. You see someone on the train with this cool watch, you're like, "Oh, cool. But now apply that, like map that onto a kid, be like, "Damn, that kids watch is so cool.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. Bet his dad has a speed master.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, exactly. When did you guys get your first watch? Do you remember, or remember what it was if you can?
Henry Phillips:
This shows the level of importance of kid watches, doesn't it? I'm positive that I was given a watch as a four to seven year old. I'm sure that in the moment I thought it was really cool. Couldn't possibly tell you what it is now. Not a chance.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I think I had a Timex Iron man something, mostly because I remember pushing buttons. I knew it was a digital watch. I knew there were buttons on it, so I could be getting the exact model wrong. But I remember pushing buttons on it and completely expecting that it would make me go faster. Didn't quite work out that way, but I do remember that and little watched hands. Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. I remember two of them. I wish I knew the models off the top of my hand or head. The first one was a Casio. It was black with a digital display with a blue line that bordered the display. I bet someone out there listening can recall one of those from their childhood too. But the one I remember most is a Timex Expedition. It was forest green and tan. It was like the safari edition Jeep Wranglers, and it had that indiglo glow that glowed in the dark.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, So cool.
Henry Phillips:
The indiglo button, that was like... I don't know what the adult equivalent is. It's like revving your engine.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure.
Henry Phillips:
Check this out.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. You're like doing it under your desk at school. "I can indiglo wherever I want." So yeah. You both pointed out the quality of this design, and that it's cool that kids have nice stuff. Barrett, and she wrote this piece for HOODINKEE, that's really cool, about the launch of her brand. That sounded like a dinosaur. What was that?
JD DiGiovanni:
It was dinosaur.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, good. She said a couple of things. "There's no reason to skip out on a good design just because the customer is young," which I think is a really wonderful sentiment. In justifying dive watches, she said they have "The most visually appealing designs. They're also the most useful, and get, it was almost impossible to find a kid's watch with a bezel," which is exactly what you'd want to watch nerd to say about a kid's product. What do you guys think about dive watches specifically for kids?
JD DiGiovanni:
It seems fitting. I mean, when you think about what a dive watch is intended to do, it's actually probably more fitting than what most dive watches are worn for, the context they're worn in, which a boardroom mostly. Kids, they run around and knock into stuff all the time. They get covered in water or just juice. The idea of having something that's at least styled as if it's a bit more tough seems fitting in.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think too there's an element to this whole project that I think I love, is that kids are precocious. Now a lot of kids have a precocious streak in them. If a lot of the watches that are being worn around them are more like dive watches, then they're going to want to wear theirs too and not have it feel like it's a little kid thing.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. For sure.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. That's a great point.
Nick Caruso:
My nephew wasn't this age when I gave him a watch. I don't even remember what it was, but it was a plastic dive watch that was like indestructible or whatever. He was probably nine or 10. He loved it. He would not take it off. I think they really take to it. You're right. I hadn't thought of it like that, JD. Kids are the perfect use case for a dive watch, like a rugged watch. Almost like a farmer would be the perfect use case for a truck and no one else really is. It was a great point.
Henry Phillips:
Maybe kids are just the perfect use case for all watches. No phone. Just...
JD DiGiovanni:
Just vibes.
Henry Phillips:
It's vibes, man. Parchie's for everyone.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Could be. I'll admit. When I suggested the story, we talk about the story to you guys. My first gut reaction to this was pretty cynical and it was like, "This is consumerism being forced upon six-year-olds." I'll also admit that I haven't completely ridded myself of that feeling, but just as a cool thing that your kid might enjoy for the reasons you guys have outlined, I'm on board. Though, I mean, there is this like accessorizing your kid's element to this. This kind of like the J. Crew catalog $80 sweaters for your three-year-old situation.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I mean, there's something there. But I almost feel like there's just so much more. Yeah, you can identify a watch that's maybe a bit more like... The pitch is these look nicer, like these are more nicely made and they're cooler. They're still telling the time. You could get a cheaper Timex or something. So you could say it's maybe more in the vain end of things.
JD DiGiovanni:
But I don't know. It's like consumerism or consumer culture going a little bit nuts, isn't by no means really reserved to just watches for kids. It's like there's so much more. There are so many other product categories that are aimed at kids, that frankly I think are a lot worse for everybody. So I see the whole thing as pretty benign and mostly just a net positive, in my viewing of it.
Nick Caruso:
Henry? You're our economics guy. Yeah.
Henry Phillips:
I think I agree.
JD DiGiovanni:
Oh God.
Henry Phillips:
This is going to come up a bunch, this one, isn't it? No, I agree. I think there's a real point of note from this being made by someone who is probably by her own description a watch nerd. I think watch nerds, and specifically many of those who aren't clout chasing, buying [inaudible 00:13:07] RPA, Royal Oaks, and things that are really just the hype of it, guys that are going in for Seikos and stuff.
Henry Phillips:
I think really do admire the idea of a quality well-made time thing, in a way that in a way that maybe doesn't feel so [inaudible 00:13:28] consumeristic. This gives off that vibe where it's just fun. It's more expensive because maybe it's a smaller production run or it's just spinning up, or it doesn't have the might of the swatch group behind it. But yeah, to me, it does read as pretty benign. I love the idea of just giving kids quality options.
Henry Phillips:
Not to continually reference the bike industry, but this happens with bikes all the time where you have these junky little kids' bikes because they can be. A few bike makers have come along and started to make really high quality bikes for kids. You realize like, "Yeah, okay. If I'm a bike enthusiast, why not spend the hopefully marginal extra amount of money and pass that on?"
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. There definitely are examples. I mean, that's a good one to point out, is those bikes, I mean, specifically the ones without pedals that kids can push along, because, yeah, there are the cheapy junky ones. There's the stuff that's a bit nicer. Then you have the stuff that's like insulting. I think Specialized did a carbon fiber frame one that cost like $1,200 a couple of years ago. That gets my hackles up where I'm just like, "What are you doing? What's going on here?"
JD DiGiovanni:
If we're thinking about that in relationship to this watch, I mean, this watch is not anywhere close to that. So I think we're in the clear those.
Nick Caruso:
Those parents gave their kid a Royal Oak, for sure.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
This is far removed from DJ Khaled giving his kid a Rolex or whatever, at the age of like three weeks.
JD DiGiovanni:
Can you really even have a watch if you're three weeks old? I'm sorry. DJ Khaled just bought himself a watch.
Nick Caruso:
That's right. For safekeeping, he tucks it in the crib.
JD DiGiovanni:
He just puts on his wrist.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Okay. You guys talked me out of it. You're right. These are fun. They're not excessive. My hackles go up for consumerism because of my parents who also refused to let me have a digital watch before I could tell time on an analog watch, analog clock. So they would have ironically been really into this.
Henry Phillips:
I'm going to imagine that they wanted to make... Like, "If it's now or never. If you get a digital watch now, analog time reading is never going to happen.
Nick Caruso:
That's right. No, I still don't have a digital watch. No, it's not true.
Henry Phillips:
It's like learning cursive or something.
Nick Caruso:
Right. Right. Well, okay. We've got fun watches for kids. No carbon fiber bike frames for kids. We're all in agreement. Next up, another story. Some news from Acura. I was at Monterey Car Week last week and over the weekend and happened to watch this announcement happen live. So I can verify it's true. Acura, of course the luxury wing of Honda, is relaunching the Integra next year. The Integra was the sporty two door hatchback that originally launched back in the mid '80s and gained this huge popularity for its driving dynamics and affordability, and then achieved cult status after it was canceled in the mid aughts.
Nick Caruso:
Particularly the really advanced sporty type, Integra type, are... Another dinosaur. Those type Rs trade hands for a lot of money now, or can, like up and over 80 grand sometimes. Though Acura is mum on details for this new car, there have been a lot of spy shots, alleged spy shots, and renderings that are predicting that it will pretty much be what we expect and hope, the two-door compact hatchback, just like the original. In a second, I want to talk about the new Nissan Z, which also was revealed this week.
Nick Caruso:
But first off, I'm going to offer my Integrity take, and it is that I want a modern version of the exact same car. I want the spy shots and renderings to be totally right, and I want it to be sporty, small, analog. No other goodies. Just this really great styling and solid performance. You guys agree, right? Am I right?
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
There you go. I mean, is there a danger that's not going to happen, Henry? What do you think?
Henry Phillips:
Sure. I mean, I think there's a weird thing with re-issues or bringing back storied nameplates, and we even talked about it last week, where there is this weird thing where it seems that all car enthusiasts want you to do when you bring back an old name of anything, is to just bring back the exact same car.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Yeah.
Henry Phillips:
I think people would have preferred if Lamborghini had just decided to make whatever, a hundred new old Countaches, or that the Camaro would... Well, it still is. But yeah. I love the idea of a small sporty, reasonably affordable car that doesn't have too much extra, and I love a small hatchback.
Nick Caruso:
For sure.
Henry Phillips:
So I'm glad that it's coming back. I think it's a great little segment of the market, and one that they probably don't... I don't even know if Honda really has... I mean, the Civic, but...
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, the Civic. There's the Civic type R and all those things. So there's-
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
[crosstalk 00:19:42]-
Henry Phillips:
I would love a slightly more tasteful Civic R.
Nick Caruso:
Without that wing.
Henry Phillips:
I think they do it without the wing. But even then, it's just like it's got some angles, it's got some weird stuff going on. But yeah, give me an Integra R that definitely harks back to the original, because you sent around those links for the type Rs that were selling on Bring A Trailer and other sites, and they look great. They look so cool.
Nick Caruso:
They really do. Fun story for another time. I injured myself on the wing of a Civic type R once, badly enough that I couldn't shift the car afterward. JD, you just agreed with Henry about those old ones looking good. I feel like there's a thread to pull there.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I mean, first off it's just a little weird seeing stuff from when you were growing up become like retro. It is like late '90s. It's like late '90s, early 2000s, like sporty car... I mean, like two-door cars and hatchbacks. It's just like they're coming back. I mean, there is a part of me that wonders, okay, so one of the appeals of this car was that it just checked a lot of boxes and wasn't really crazy expensive. And so, a lot of the young drivers could pick these cars up in the 1990s and in 2000s.
JD DiGiovanni:
Those people are in their later thirties and forties now. When you're thinking about what you're hoping from this car, Nick, about like want the same thing is, is the market for this car going to be people who just want to go down a trip on memory lane, above the speed limit? But maybe a bit more comfortably. I do wonder if this is really for the younger market in the same way that the original one was, or if this is going to be a play to the weak soft spot in all of us that just wants to stay in a particular era or revisit it with a car or something.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. That element of the product planning has to be there. You pegged it. It's like there is a demographic that love this and is probably the demographic that wants it. It's been pointed out that young people are not buying cars now. My mom probably doesn't want one of these, but I do. But it is that same yearn for nostalgia that got people up in arms about the new defender being too soft and rounded and not like a steel box with big tires.
Nick Caruso:
But yeah, the nostalgia factor is big and I wonder if... One of the questions I posed to you guys is, is this segment, by dent of it... This segment meaning like mid range performance, by dent of it being popular with car people specifically who always want the same thing. Is this segment safe from... Safe, that's a bias, but protected from... Which is the same word. Doesn't matter. Safe from the advancements like electric powertrains and like futuristic next level changes. Are these cars essentially all going to stay the same or is this potentially going to be something that is like an all-wheel drive, electric weird car, kind of like the NSX, the newest NSX was from Acura? Remains to be seen.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. I would love to think that there is some persistent market and desire for... There's certainly a desire for the pared back, almost vintage at this point, driving experience. It seems cynical to say that it will never, or that it will go away in its entirety. There's always going to be a Mazda Miata, you hope. But it feels like the Integra... I guess, I'm trying to figure out, what do we compete against? But feels like it's got to have some bells and whistles. Is it going to be like 40 grand? It seems like it totally could be.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I mean, that's the hope. That's what I mean about this segment, and I was waffling because it is a big one. You're talking about the Miata and this car in the same breath because they kind of compete against each other. It will also compete against the car I mentioned in this segment intro, which is the new Nissan Z. Nissan just revealed it, the next generation of the Z, like sport coupe this week. It's a re-issue of an old brand. It's literally a visual mix of most of them to [inaudible 00:25:13].
Nick Caruso:
But my parents wanted one when they got married, a Z. So it's been around for a long time. This competes with the Miata, competes with the Mustang. I don't know. I feel like it's just like this centripetal force keeps this segment from changing a ton or may keep it from it. That's my take, for about $40,000.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I guess, the tension with any car coming back and any badging coming back is, yeah, you're like the spirit of that thing in what people remember it as. But then you also just have the rest of the market, or at least the segment that you're trying to sell to. I don't know. I mean, just to answer that earlier question you had, Nick, my hunch is that they're going to try to kill two birds with one stone and end up upsetting I think the base.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think that's almost a guarantee because, look, I mean, this car has a following and people who really love it and are very fond of it. And then there are just scores and scores more who have no idea what an Integra is and they're just looking for a good car and like, "What do you mean this doesn't have all the standard features that every other car in the market has?" Right?
Nick Caruso:
100%.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think that's always going to be the issue that folks run into. And so, it necessarily has to change. But it's almost like that's where the excitement comes in, is can you keep the spirit or idea behind a product alive through new iterations and new ways of like new technologies? Can you keep that candle lit? I'm super curious to see what the consensus on this will be when it does come out.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. That is Acura's approach, or has been in the past. I didn't mean to deride the NSX at all. It's an incredible car. I mean, it truly is. This Integra was announced at the same event where they announced the last and high powered iteration of the NSX, the type S. So I thought about that car a lot over the last week, the NSX, and the original was this lightweight aluminum, edgy car with a V6 and not much else. The new car is a hybrid all-wheel drive, up to 600 horsepower. It's got this wild dual clutch transmission, all this carbon fiber.
Nick Caruso:
It's a complete departure from the original because they're a forward-thinking company and they wanted to advance everything. That car is underappreciated for what it can do, because I think so many people wanted the Defender version of the NSX to come back. So can-
Henry Phillips:
I always find-
Nick Caruso:
... you please everyone with a car? I don't think so.
Henry Phillips:
I always find the NSX one super interesting too because it feels like the DNA of the company persisted. The original NSX came out and it was weird and it was innovative in a lot of ways. I think for a long time, it went under-appreciated as the boring supercar. And then, whatever, 10 years later, people realized that it was really pretty amazing. Then they did the same thing when they reintroduced the new one. So I'm curious to see what the trajectory of that car is.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah, I wonder how it's going to do. Re-introductions of discontinued brands or nameplates, it seems hard. I mean, I'm struggling to think of one that really nailed it. The modern muscle cars seemed like they might be... Like the Challenger and stuff like that seemed to have gone reasonably well, but-
Nick Caruso:
I think Mini will, but Mini and the new Beetle maybe.
Henry Phillips:
That's true.
JD DiGiovanni:
Hit it.
Henry Phillips:
That's a good call.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, it will be interesting. You know what? This is a side note, but I've spent a lot of time on Autotrader looking for old NSXs and just seeing how much I would have to ruin myself financially to get one. But it calls to mind like how much will these be worth eventually and how much of a markup are dealers going to put on them because they know people are going to want them? Remains to be seen if they're going to knock it out of the park or if it's going to be too weird or what. I didn't mean to have a final word. I think I just did it though. JD?
JD DiGiovanni:
You might have. I was going to ask you about something completely unrelated.
Nick Caruso:
Okay.
JD DiGiovanni:
The announcement of this car I saw on social media, they did it with drones.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Yeah. It was-
JD DiGiovanni:
Can you tell me about that?
Nick Caruso:
Sure. Monterey Car Week, Monterey, California at Carmel Valley Ranch, the golf resort, I don't remember which green it was over. All these car events that weeks generally take place in golf courses, which is always weird. But it was like cocktail event, the sun goes down and it looks over this fairway in green. The music stops and then you hear this hum. There's like, "[inaudible 00:31:13]." I don't know how many dozens of drones. Probably more complex than it seemed. It was just very elegant and simple for a display of words and shapes.
Nick Caruso:
It was like NSX and a type S, because they had just announced that car. Then it evolved into Integra. Then the drones morphed into the shape of a two-door compact sport coupe. People went nuts, I think largely because of the very good margaritas they were serving. But also because people were really excited. No one had heard this yet. Jon Ikeda from Acura made the announcement and there was this moment where people were like, "What? What?"
Nick Caruso:
And then, he couldn't tell us any more information than the drone show and it was just a lot of hype. Yeah, it was pretty spectacular, like a splashy way to do it and really good marketing move on their part.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. Drone dancing or messaging or whatever the heck it is, feels like it's slowly creeping into... It's becoming more and more common. I'm just seeing it more. I remember seeing it at the Olympics ceremony or something like that a while back. Now it's like you can just do it for a car launch. Anyway, I'm only vaguely freaked out. So just wanted to make sure [crosstalk 00:32:47]-
Nick Caruso:
That's terrifying. No, it's terrifying. But yeah, it was spectacular to watch. It was really cool news. Regardless of what happens, I'm excited for whatever the car ends up being. So kudos to Acura. But let's move on to story numero threeo. Last up is a story recently published by Vox. It's a story by Audrey Carleton it's titled, "Are your houseplants actually good for the planet?" It's a very detailed deep dive on the carbon impact of buying houseplants.
Nick Caruso:
Maybe more top of mind than usual since the pandemic began, because we've started spending more time at home and demand for houseplants... This is a documented fact cited many times in the article, that demand for houseplants has skyrocketed and had already been growing exponentially in the couple of years prior to the lockdown. So long story short, that means more plants have to be grown, and that means massive industrial farms have been made and employed to keep up with that demand.
Nick Caruso:
The knock-on effect is that there's a lot of water and land and energy use, and not to mention byproducts of the shipping process. That all equates to a significant and growing environmental impact. JD, I know you've got something to say about this. What's your take?
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I don't think it's that bad. But let me explain. Yeah. Look, this story isn't really a new one. First, I want to say that the piece is a damn good read. The folks who are at Vox, I mean, are unsurprisingly good at their jobs, and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about just the industry of houseplants and the fact that it is an industry, and that there are these big players, these big greenhouses that control most of the market. So I don't want to write this thing off. Audrey Carlton, shout out. Killer article.
Nick Caruso:
So good.
JD DiGiovanni:
But, look, I mean, there is a carbon cost to everything we do, any activity, especially when it comes down to purchasing something. I mean, I think, if anything, the thing that's worth thinking about when reading this story and understanding in more specific terms that the carbon cost for buying houseplants is just if you are participating in a trend, which is I think something that this piece identified really well, and then that houseplants are, they're very trendy. They go in and out of favor. Different plants become popular and unpopular, is just take a beat before you purchase something, and think, "Do I really need this? Do I really want this? Is this going to be something that is going to stick around in my life for longer than a couple of months?"
JD DiGiovanni:
I think if you can, if you can make more wise decisions about what you're buying and why, that's going to get you to a better place. But generally speaking, I think that it's not on the scale of bad things in the world. I don't see this one all that high up there, and even in the more narrow world of climate change and global warming, especially because I think when you think about waste... The production has a relatively high amount of carbon cost, or at least it's laid out pretty well in resource use.
JD DiGiovanni:
But when you dispose off a plant, it is organic material. So at least it's not like a plastic straw situation where you use it once and it's thrown away to forever kill turtles. There's a different situation here. So look, at this point, I'm beginning to meander and lose the thread here, but I will just say that there's a cost to any kind of purchase and good in participation in the market, and I think this one is relatively benign, albeit very interesting to find out about.
JD DiGiovanni:
If you're really worried about the carbon footprint that your activities have, I think it's important to live conscientiously and purchase conscientiously. But I don't know. I think you can enjoy your plant and then save the time that you would otherwise spend trying to reduce your plant carbon footprint, to just like lobbying politicians and taking part in political action. Because there's a problem here to be solved, but I'm not sure that plants are the front of this war that is worth fighting even.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I mean, I don't think that was meandering too much at all. I think you made excellent points in there. It is really interesting. But in context, it really isn't horrible. Two things come to mind for me, is, one, we were just talking about golf courses. You want to talk about a carbon impact and like a waste of space. Particularly as someone who counts among my very worst qualities, that I do golf, I mean, I resent myself for it anyway. But compared to this is a different [inaudible 00:38:27] context.
Nick Caruso:
And then the second one, just one fact from this article that on the surface seemed alarming to me. Then the more I thought about it, the less it was, it talks about poinsettias. A couple of years ago, 2019, production cost $153 million, 2019. Each of the plants for purchase, each unit, had a carbon footprint of half a kilogram, and compares this to burning a liter of gasoline that produces just over two kilograms. I was like, "Whoa."
Nick Caruso:
Each pointsettia was like a quarter of a liter of gasoline. That seems terrible. But then I just moved my Jeep to do alternate side parking and it probably burned that much fuel, and I do that many times, constantly.
Henry Phillips:
And it didn't look nearly as good.
Nick Caruso:
Doesn't. It's not festive. It's not even the holidays. It's way too early. There are a lot of problems with it. In context, I tend to agree with you, JD. Henry, how about you? We can come back to your economics expertise here.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah, please. Let's go through a variety of various equations and functions. No, I mean, I wish I had something to disagree with you guys about, but I'm on the totally same page. I think it's interesting, and I think to reinforce the idea that everything has a carbon cost, especially when you're dealing with things that are particularly not local or affordable or imported. There is generally an increased cost, and something that most people maybe don't account for.
Henry Phillips:
So I'm cool with the idea of making sure that people account for carbon costs of things that may not feel like they have it. But yeah, to say that consumers should go and drastically alter their plant-buying habit, that's a tougher leap for sure, because I'm staring at a desk of 20 things that all had a significantly higher carbon impact than all of the plants combined in my apartment. So it's a tough sell.
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah. It is worth saying too, I didn't find an argument in this piece to say, like, "Stop buying plants," or, "You're killing the earth because you're buying plants." It really did more outline just the costs involved. Again, I think that's really instructive and worth finding out. I think that what that leads me to think about as a reader is like, "Okay. Why? Okay, what do I do with this information? What consequence does this have in my own life?"
JD DiGiovanni:
I think that it really, if anything, mostly just satisfied my own curiosity about this like market and how it works, and the fact that really whenever anything is as trendy as plants, that the monster industry just comes in and just moves heaven and earth to get you your cute plant, to be a background in your TikTok or your Instagram photo. It's so striking. I mean, of course, I think we're all familiar this would be less interesting if it was any other product. But plants have this innocent thing to them. It's like FernGully vibes, you're like, "It's all good." It's-
Nick Caruso:
[inaudible 00:42:21].
JD DiGiovanni:
Yeah, exactly. And it's just not the case with this stuff. It's nuts. I mean, I don't know. I mean, has it changed your thoughts about how you're going to buy plants at all, Nick? I mean, you're going to buy from a different greenhouse now? I see some plants waving in the background now.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Every time I'm on a video calls, people are like, "Are your plants attacking you?" My air conditioner just moves them around. One of the reasons this article struck me initially is that I've somehow avoided purchasing any of my houseplants online, or having them sent to me. I've always gone to a greenhouse, which made me feel, first, self-righteous. And then second, I don't know, to your point, to the reaction you guys had, we all had, is like, "I don't know if it's all that bad if I do find some online."
Nick Caruso:
My girlfriend buys plants online and they're wonderful and they stick around, and that's a nice thing. But one thing it did make me do, I got curious because at Gear Patrol, we recommend houseplants a lot because they're great to have around for a lot of reasons. And they've been popular lately, so we want to give people some advice. I was looking through some of the providers, some of the outlets, the vendors for these. These are popular places like, well, Amazon Costa Farms, but also like UrbanStems and The Sill and all that.
Nick Caruso:
I didn't go really hard into their source code on their website or anything, but I didn't see anything about sustainability practices on those websites. I guess I felt like I needed to go into detective mode after reading this article, but it's not alarming. It's just also ironic. It's surprising to me, I guess. I would have expected to see that information [inaudible 00:44:36].
JD DiGiovanni:
No, that's a good point. That's a good point. I guess there's a spectrum where you can on the one hand, throw your hands up in the air and say, "Look, everything has a carbon cost. It's all out of our hands. A hundred companies produce X percent of the total carbon in the world and we're all doomed." On the other hand, you can say... I mean, you can point to examples of industries that have taken their impact, both in terms of climate and more generally seriously.
JD DiGiovanni:
I think the coffee industry is a good example of that, where the way that coffee is traded is taken really seriously and it's been well-defined. And that community has really come around identifying different models for making sure that people who are growing the coffee are being paid appropriately and that the plants are being taken care of in a sustainable way so that the coffee can continue to be produced. Then thinking about what kind of packaging they're using, how the actual roasting machine is set up.
JD DiGiovanni:
It can come across as being a bit pressure sometimes. But I think in general, it's become pretty prominent in that community, is like the specialty coffee world. There's no reason not to think that the same can't happen and that the margin of impact that producing a bunch of plants already has can't be reduced to a certain extent, or at least be approached with more consideration.
JD DiGiovanni:
So that's interesting to point out, that there's nothing on those sites about sustainability, and that maybe that's a question that as a consumer, I'll maybe look for a bit more actively.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I mean, it's like a boom happened and the market has to adjust. Well, if this continues, which it's predicted to, this popularity of houseplants, then no doubt the industry will come under scrutiny by environmentally aware people. They all do and they'll have to react and share information and take care of it all. So yeah, we'll see how it goes. But it's like to your point, our points, it doesn't seem end-of-the-world-ish. I don't know. Henry, do you want to... Have you had time to peruse your textbooks?
Henry Phillips:
No.
Nick Caruso:
Do you want to weigh in on the last word here?
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. No, I've assembled some equations that seem to agree with you.
Nick Caruso:
It's a good joke. That's a good joke. We're going to keep doing this, everybody.
Henry Phillips:
I think there's an interesting... Not to talk about externalities and knock-on effects, but how much of the inherent non-greenness of the plant industry is offset by the idea that people are living among plants and valuing nature and plants and green space and green things, and trying to live or modify their general lives accordingly? That's just vague rambling and thinking. But not to say that it's offset or if it somehow doesn't matter anymore.
Henry Phillips:
But I do think that more plants is probably a good thing, coming from three people who are currently in a place that is largely pavement and concrete.
Nick Caruso:
So true.
Henry Phillips:
The idea of people valuing green space more or greenery in general, feels like something I can get behind.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Right on.
JD DiGiovanni:
I must not value greenery at all, because I have zero plants in my apartment.
Nick Caruso:
Well, I can recommend a lot of just mega irresponsible outlets where you can get all sorts of... Or you could just buy a huge block of styrofoam. You don't-
JD DiGiovanni:
There's this great golf course in Dubai, with phenomenal plants. Just go charter a plane.
Nick Caruso:
Well, I think it's interesting. All three of these stories today, I don't think this always happens with conversations like this. But all three, we walked away with pretty positive, if not critical takes, which I really appreciate. As the person who chose the three stories, I feel self-righteous again. So that's pretty good.
Nick Caruso:
If anyone listening is interested in figuring out their own carbon footprint or all that, we'll drop links in the show notes down there. There's a lot of like fun, little calculators and stuff you can use. But for this episode, we're going to wrap things up. That's all we've got for the show this week. JD and Henry, thanks for weighing in on the news from our little concrete jungle here.
Henry Phillips:
Just, thank you.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Everyone else, thanks for listening. Like I said, links and info about everything we talked about in this episode can be found in the show notes or on the site, Gear Patrol website if that's where you are. Hit us up on social media with thoughts, responses, questions. Our handle everywhere is GearPatrol. That's one word. And or send us an email at podcast@gearpatrol.com.
Nick Caruso:
Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on your platform of choice, and please drop us a five star review if you're so inclined because it helps us get into more ears. That's it for today. We will talk to you next week. For Gear Patrol, I'm Nick Caruso. Until next time, take care.