In this episode, Senior Staff Writer Tanner Bowden, who covers outdoors and fitness products for Gear Patrol, discusses vegan shoes. Tanner has written in depth about why vegan shoes cannot be considered even close to sustainable–even though they're very much marketed as such using a deceptive practice called "Greenwashing." Tanner discusses how environmentally conscious consumers can recognize dubious marketing and avoid getting duped. He also talks us through new leather alternatives that are actually sustainable, and suggests several specific products and practices to consider when you're looking for your next responsible shoe purchase.
Tanner Bowden discusses why vegan shoes aren't sustainable–despite being marketed as such–and explains how eco-conscious shoppers can spot dubious marketing.
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Nick Caruso:
This is the Gear Patrol podcast. In this episode, I talk with senior staff writer, Tanner Bowden, who covers outdoors and fitness products for Gear Patrol. Tanner has written in depth about a small subset of the product world, vegan shoes, and why almost no vegan shoe can be considered even close to sustainable, even though they're often marketed as such using a deceptive practice called greenwashing. He discusses here what that means exactly and how environmentally conscious consumers can avoid getting duped. Tanner also shares a few other tips and tricks along those lines, advances in environmentally conscious shoemaking, and even suggests specific products to consider when you're looking for your next responsible shoe purchase. I really appreciate you tuning in today. If you like what you're hearing, I hope you'll subscribe to the Gear Patrol podcast. And while you're at it, review the pod too. Tap those five stars so that more folks can join in on the conversation. But now, it's time to get the lowdown from Tanner. I'm Nick Caruso, and I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. Can you tell us what exactly your beef substitute is with a vegan shoes?
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah. Yeah, and I'll just say too that the idea for this article came to me and I started thinking about it just because I had noticed in my email inbox, just a proliferation of product pitches for vegan shoes, essentially. It just seems like everybody is making vegan shoes now. And it was always coming at me through this lens of sustainability. And then when I started digging into it, I found out that it is definitely not as simple as if a shoe is vegan it is therefore a sustainable, good product for you to buy if you want to live a low impact lifestyle. It's absolutely not true. So yeah, my beef with vegan shoes is that part of it, not the animal welfare part of it, but the faux sustainability part of it.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, you make that distinction. It's two sides of the same coin, like I mentioned earlier. Veganism as a philosophy and lifestyle is both of those things, but in terms of the environmental considerations, this is BS a lot of the time. And you say, there's a quote I want to read that says, "Nearly every vegan shoe comes with a message that it's greener and better for the environment," end quote. But you say that's greenwashing, which is another term we may repeat today. So can you say if there is any more to define what that is and why vegan shoes in particular fall victim to this marketing?
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah. Yeah. You hit on this already, but greenwashing is essentially just sustainability marketing, but it's more of in a nefarious way to cover up non-sustainable practices. And it's rampant, it's everywhere. And yeah, and you see it a lot with vegan footwear, because footwear is just an incredibly impactful, wasteful industry and product category. So it's exactly this kind of thing that's just ripe for companies to try and make you feel better about all your shoes.
Nick Caruso:
Right. So what do vegan shoes claim to do and why is that problematic?
Tanner Bowden:
Right. So yeah, vegan shoes, most of it's very shallow in how they're claiming it to be sustainable. Essentially they just say, "It's vegan, so therefore it's sustainable," and that's the end of that because a lot of us associate veganism with sustainability or just a sustainable lifestyle. But the reality of it is that when you replace the animal products in shoes, which are typically leather is the big one, and then fur as well as some glues and adhesives, also have animal products components to them. When you replace those, what are you actually replacing them with? And the answer is most of the time you replace them with petroleum-based products like PUs and PVCs that are essentially just plastic when you boil it down to a very straightforward thing.
Nick Caruso:
That's plastic, it's oil, we're taking oil out of the ground, which means there's all the environmental byproducts of that practice, let alone just definitely not biodegradable materials that it produces, which is of course killing fish and choking off environments around the world. But you also mentioned that companies go even further than that. It's not like you're just wearing plastic shells on your feet, they feel like leather too and there're chemicals that are applied to achieve that feed.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And this is one part that reminded me of my experiment with vegan eating in that a lot of recipes and things I was trying is trying to be a vegan version of a real thing, like vegan cheese made of cashews, stuff like that. Where you can tell it's not really the real thing, but the goal is to get as close to it as possible and make you think that it's the real thing, like Impossible Burger, that's a great example of the again, mimicry, or plant-based mimicry, I should maybe say. And it's the same thing with these materials that they're using in a lot of shoes where they really want to make petroleum-based fake leather look and feel as much real leather as possible. And a lot of times that does involve, as you said, adding chemicals and solvents to it to make it more pliable or softer or textured or whatever it is.
Nick Caruso:
Which outlines that maybe it's just really, really difficult, your experiment personally. Maybe it's just really difficult to make a truly sustainable product.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
This is the token podcast car reference from me is that it's like electric and hybrid cars, which have batteries in them. They save gas at the pump and they emit less on the road, but there are chemical batteries inside these things, they're massive, that have to be disposed of when they wear out. And that's eventually harmful.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
There's a difficulty there, but there are brands who at least acknowledge that, which is a leading statement. But there are brands who acknowledged that and I'd invite you to talk about one of them.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, definitely. So the EV analogy is a great one, I think. But yes, there are brands that do acknowledge upfront they rely heavily on marketing their vegan footwear, but they explicitly say that this is not the end all be all solution to typical leather shoes. And one of them that I believe you're referring to is OluKai.
Nick Caruso:
That's correct.
Tanner Bowden:
They have a lot of leather products to begin with, like leather sandals and shoes. So for them to begin producing vegan footwear is a big thing. And they mentioned in a blog post on their site, and I'll just read the quote, I'll let them say it. They say, "It's important to remember that animal free shoes are not always more environmentally friendly by default. It is a lengthy contentious debate as to whether leather production or synthetic production is worse for the environment." And then they also say though, that, "Generally vegan twos are considered to leave a smaller carbon footprint than typical shoes."
Nick Caruso:
That transparency really outlines what we're getting at is that there's a lot of consideration to put into this purchase, if this is the road you want to go down. Yeah, so I find it impressive that a company would be that transparent. "We're doing it, but you're not going to like it." So are there other companies? I know we're going to talk about Patagonia in a second.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, Patagonia is certainly the big one that comes to mind. Their sustainability practices are just front and center. Sometimes you'll go to their website, and there's not even a product on the homepage, it's just an article about regenerative, organic cotton farming or something like that. So they are very active and I think they are probably the peak of that. Yvon Chouinard, the company's founder is very vocal about his misgivings about the fact that he created this billion dollar clothing company and the impact that has on the world and the environment. And so I think that very much stems from him and his inner conflict that he has with this thing that he's created. But yeah, certainly Patagonia has a wide range of blogs and articles that talk about their production processes and how they're trying to improve them and all the little things that they're doing to make each product just as incrementally more sustainable as possible.
Nick Caruso:
And now, a quick ad break. In your piece, you also talk about a specific product by Patagonia there, this boot. It speaks to both sides of this, "save animal cruelty", in a way, and sustainability, it's a use the whole animal mindset. Can you talk about the work boot by Patagonia and how it does relate to this whole conversation?
Tanner Bowden:
Well, first, I should have just mentioned that Patagonia admits that no product is sustainable. Doesn't matter how much recycled content is in it, or whether it offsets CO2 emissions, if you're making a product, that is not sustainable and it will have an impact. But I liked this, it's called the wild idea work boot. And to me, this is the best product example of a really nuanced take on footwear sustainability. And I have to say it is not vegan. So it's a leather work boot made from regeneratively-farmed bison skin, essentially. And these animals, Patagonia has already been contracting with the farm to produce bison jerky for its food line, Patagonia provisions. And essentially what it's doing with this boot is using that the hides, which were before they were doing this, maybe a waste byproduct of the food production, and now they're using it to make a boot.
Tanner Bowden:
They tan the leather in a more eco-friendly way than maybe the more harmful methods that some people are familiar with that use heavy metals and nasty stuff like that. They tan it with olive leaves, vegetable tanning, which some people maybe are familiar with. It's just a less impactful way to do it. They're repairable, so if the sole wears out, you can get them resoled because of the way they're built. And another aspect of it too, is that they're not trying to sell as many of these things and make as much money on these boots as they can. They're only making as many boots as they have this bison leather to produce. So as soon as they're sold out and the leather stock has gone, they're gone. But then once they get more leather, they'll make some more. And it's antithetical, I think, to how a lot of brands are probably thinking about products. The idea is that you want to sell a bunch and make money on them, but this really isn't that.
Nick Caruso:
Right. So that's actually a point that I was going to make, I mentioned the use, the whole animal mindset, which has been a part of cultures and lifestyles since long before we started industrializing every inch of the globe.
Tanner Bowden:
Sure.
Nick Caruso:
I know you mentioned a couple other companies who are not just making products that are aimed at sustainability and low carbon footprints, but also materials out there. You mentioned vegan leather, but there are other materials. Can you touch on those? Because we've actually talked about them on the podcast before.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I've mentioned the bad vegan leathers, but there are good things leathers too. There's a bunch of a natural materials-based leathers. One is, there's an apple-based leather, there's a pineapple based leather, it's stuff like that. And one that I really like, and I think is the most promising of these, which have historically been, to go back to the car analogy, a pineapple based leather handbag is like the concept car for the vegan leather world. But there's one, there's this new interest in mycelium-based leather, AKA mushroom leather. Mycelium is the stringy fibers that connect mushrooms and plants under ground. You could go dig around in the forest and find mycelium fibers. But this company who we have talked about before, Bolt Threads, they're busy trying to make things like manmade spider silk, they have a material called Mylo, which is a mycelium-based leather.
Tanner Bowden:
And they grow this fungus in a giant warehouse in an undisclosed location, somewhere in Europe, I believe. And I have seen it a photo of the inside, and it's just racks of weird white mushroom me looking things in a gigantic space. But yeah, they use it and somehow they turn it into leather, and it's, supple, the texture is closer to the real stuff than the PU bad stuff we talked about a second ago. It's got a good feel to it, it's supposedly easy to work with for the actual footwear designers too. And yeah, I think this one is the most promising leather alternative that we're going to see in the near future, because I believe that this year, some brands will finally be coming out with some products that use this Mylo leather.
Nick Caruso:
Okay. Yeah. Interestingly enough, you say we've talked about Bolt Threads before, this is very strangely the second podcast in a row where the word mycelium has come up. I think that's a very strange fact. And if anybody's listening regularly, I'm sure you were taken aback. Yeah, truly shocking, I know. But yeah, Bolt Threads, so cool that just racks of strange futuristic fibers in an undisclosed location sounds like Wakanda. It sounds like they're just making the Black Panther uniforms down there.
Tanner Bowden:
Totally.
Nick Caruso:
Am I right that the mushroom leather is being used or was used by Stella McCartney? Or am I conflating two different things from your article?
Tanner Bowden:
No, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Stella McCartney has founded her brand on a more sustainable version of the high-end fashion industry. And yeah, she's one of the early adopters of this mushroom leather, along with Adidas is another one. Which to me was an unlikely, gigantic sportswear company to be adopting this cutting edge sustainability stuff, is admirable. And I am certainly curious to see how it comes to fruition.
Nick Caruso:
Pull all the threads together, all the mycelium fiber together.
Tanner Bowden:
There you go.
Nick Caruso:
If you are pursuing vegan shoes, you may need to think twice about what you're actually getting. It's tough to satisfy both animal cruelty concerns and environmental concerns in a product like this. Even though you'll see vegan shoes are available all over the place, you mentioned in the piece that Zappos has a filter and you filter your shoes results and you get hundreds of choices. And brands like OluKai make products that are vegan, but are at least transparent about it. And we've got Patagonia who's making stuff that's a little more sustainable, if not vegan. So if a person wants to pursue vegan ideals in their products, in their shopping, but they want to avoid what we're talking, the greenwashing sustainability marketing that may be dubious, what do they do? What are you left with? Are there specific products, tips, tricks, what do you got?
Tanner Bowden:
It's hard, it really is. And I think that's the first thing you have to understand is that it's antithetical to the way that we want to buy things, because there isn't a a kill switch, easy way to just all of a sudden convert your purchasing habits, but where purchasing habits into a more sustainable version. Because really what it requires is just being more mindful about how you shop and how you look at products. You have to consider the brand that's making the shoe. What kind of brand is it? Is it a big brand or is it a small mom and pop brand? If you can even find this information out, are they producing thousands of pairs of this vegan shoe? Or is it more like the Patagonia one where it's a limited run and then it's gone? For the greenwashing conundrum, is their marketing about the sustainability of the product upfront and in your face, in a way that makes it feel like they want to make you feel good about it?
Tanner Bowden:
Because that might be worth questioning if it does seem like they're trying to convince you of something, which is the job of marketing. Or is it just there in the product specs? Like, "Hey, by the way, this is vegan." A lot of these companies that actually are sustainable, quote unquote "sustainable", because none of them are, is they'll have a lot of their efforts and the information about their efforts somewhere on their website. Usually if you scroll to the bottom, you'll find an about us, something maybe like their technologies, maybe one just solely dedicated to sustainability, that's a good one. Another thing I wanted to bring up is that there is a more recent certification that has come out called climate neutral. And climate neutral, it's a nonprofit, but it's also a certification and a label, like certified organic is on food products.
Nick Caruso:
Right.
Tanner Bowden:
So it's right on the hang tag of products from brands that are certified climate neutral. And essentially what it is is these companies undergo a measurement of their carbon footprint, and then they essentially purchase carbon credits to offset their carbon footprint so that they're a net zero carbon emissions company. And if people are wondering what carbon credits are, because they are almost like NFTs in a weird way.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. They're kind of nebulous. Yeah, that's true.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah. But it's essentially that one carbon credit, you can buy one and it equals one ton of CO2 emissions. What your money is actually going to are these CO2 offsetting activities, like reforestation or energy efficiency projects, sustainable agriculture practices, all kinds of things, waste management is another one. But yeah, so these companies are essentially able to figure out what their footprint is and then just buy it away, so they're net zero. So that's actually one that I like, because it makes it easier in a way that hasn't been around before. And that you can just see on the hang tag, "Okay, here's a pair of shoes, climate neutral, okay." That's a good one to look for.
Nick Caruso:
A good start. Yeah. And that ties in perhaps to a product you'd mentioned to me before we started recording, which you actually talked about in the story too. But Adidas and Allbirds to give it away are pairing up.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, absolutely. And Allbirds is a certified climate neutral company. Adidas isn't doing the same certification, but they're working on neutrality by 2050, I think, which they're just absolutely gigantic so it just takes longer. But yeah, Allbirds has always been about sustainability in making their shoes. And they teamed up with Adidas with this goal of making a piece of footwear with just the lowest carbon footprint ever. And so the average carbon footprint for a standard pair of shoes is roughly 13.6 kilograms. And they were aiming for two kilograms, is the goal that they set for themselves. And they actually just revealed information about this release and it's called the Adidas Allbirds future craft footprint sneaker. And it has a carbon footprint of 2.94 kilograms.
Nick Caruso:
Okay.
Tanner Bowden:
It's made out of sugar cane and recycled polyester and another fabric called tencel, which is made from wood pulp. And even the packaging is a non-standard shoe box because you have to take into account the packaging too, and how it's shipped. And yeah, so that's out now. They're going raffle off the first hundred payers, and then I think there's going to be more of a limited drop later this year, and then a wider release in 2022.
Nick Caruso:
There's your tip, everybody. You can maybe make your own shoes out of what you have in your backyard, you can thrift for some, you can find companies like Patagonia making boots that are more sustainable, or you can enter a raffle and be one of the first to own a shoe that has the longest name of any product that's ever been made.
Tanner Bowden:
They probably could have reduced the carbon footprint even further if they had shortened the name, would have saved some ink.
Nick Caruso:
I was going to say, yeah, save some ink. Exactly. Well, I think they deserve some credit anyway, some carbon credits. That's a ton of information and hopefully really helpful for anybody listening who's interested in pursuing this kind of product lifestyle. Am I missing anything? You want to make sure we pop in at the end?
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, the only other tip I would say is just buy used stuff, buy used gear. Whether it's at your local consignment shop, or there's a ton of brands now that have set up these online used gear stores too, like REI, Patagonia, North Face, Arc'teryx, there's a ton of them now. So just buy use stuff, because that's always, always, always going to be a more sustainable purchase than buying something new.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. Aside from maybe shipping and a little bit of electricity used in processing your purchase, that's a big savings. Good tips all around. So thanks for taking the time to educate me and go through all this stuff. I've got some shopping habits to change a little bit. Everybody else, thanks for tuning in. I hope you're subscribed to the podcast, but regardless, we want to hear from you particularly about this topic. We wonder if you have a favorite truly sustainable shoe or brand or just product in general. Do you have anything to share about vegan products and the difficulty or ease of pursuing them or the lifestyle in general? Do you have questions for Tanner?
Nick Caruso:
There're all sorts of things you can write in with. And there are a few ways to get in touch. One, you can leave comments and questions in a review of the podcast, wherever you're listening to it. If you do leave a review, I'd really appreciate you clicking those five stars while you're at it, so we can jog the algorithm and get more people listening. But otherwise, reach out to us on social media. On Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, our handle is gearpatrol, That's one word. Or you can email me directly at podcast@gearpatrol.com. And I'll make sure to tell Tanner that you either complimented or insulted him, or just have a question for him. But I really do want to encourage everyone to reach out with those questions and comments, so please do. Tanner, thank you for your time today, it was good chatting with you.
Tanner Bowden:
Yeah, likewise, Nick.
Nick Caruso:
And everyone else, thanks again for being here. I'm Nick Caruso and until next time, take care.