In this episode, Editor Oren Hartov explains the ins and outs of tactical watches–sometimes called military watches. When you hear the terms "dive watch" or "pilot's watch," you can easily picture the product; tactical watches are a much more ambiguous idea. Hartov explains the origin of the military wristwatch and talks about how far the category has evolved since the first World War. He also shares some insight about his own military experience, and how his relationship with watches changed as a resul
Hartov explains the origin of the military wristwatch and talks about how far the category has evolved since the first World War.
Episode Navigation:
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Nick Caruso:
This is the Gear Patrol Podcast.
Nick Caruso:
In this episode, editor Oren Hartov, who runs our watches coverage, joined me to explain the ins and outs of tactical watches, also called military watches. Hear the terms dive watch or pilot's watch, and you can easily picture the product. Tactical watches are a much more ambiguous idea. Hartov explains the origin of the military wristwatch and talks about how far the category has evolved since the First World War. He also shares some insight about his own military experience and how his relationship with watches changed as a result.
Nick Caruso:
Once you've soaked up some tactical watch knowledge, check out the show notes for tactical and military watch recommendations, from analog workhorses to digital standbys. And if you enjoy the podcast, make sure to subscribe. If you really like it, we'd appreciate a five star review to help us get into more ears.
Nick Caruso:
I'm Nick Caruso, and I'm glad you're here. Let's get started.
Nick Caruso:
Hartov, we're talking about what I've been referring to as tactical watches. So my question to you is, what is a tactical watch?
Oren Hartov:
I think the definition is vaguely loose, but I think when people think of a tactical watch, they think of probably something that could be used in a military situation. It's probably subdued in look and simple. Maybe it's all black. Probably without a lot of frills, maybe without a lot of branding. Something tough. And it doesn't only have to be used by military, but I think that's probably what comes to mind for a lot of people.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, we tend to talk about military-wide. The term military watch comes up on Gear Patrol more often than tactical watch, but they're relatively interchangeable, would you say?
Oren Hartov:
I think they generally are. A tactical look, I think, to people probably has a more specific connotation in that very often we're talking about something black or something non-reflective. And maybe a military watch, especially if it's vintage, might look like not that. It might be more complicated or it might be a pocket watch if it's old enough, which is probably not something that we consider to be tactical today. So I think the distinction is partly aesthetic, probably.
Nick Caruso:
So you've mentioned a lot of different kinds of watches there. I just said G-Shock. G-Shock is a really sort of like a relatively modern entry into the segment at large. So let's start in the back. What can you tell me about some of the first maybe what we would call military watches or early military watches.
Oren Hartov:
The wristwatch really came about as a result of the First World War. Before that, really, if we're talking about men's watches, we're talking about pocket watches. There was such thing as what they called a wristlet, which was a very small women's wristwatch, but they really weren't considered men's watches.
Oren Hartov:
What happened during the First World War is that men needed their hands free, needed their hands free to fire artillery, needed your hands free for weapons, needed your hands free for all sorts of tasks, and taking out a pocket watch to check the time was not optimal.
Nick Caruso:
I guess not.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. So what a lot of people did in the beginning was weld crude wire lugs onto pocket watches and put some sort of leather strap on them and wear them on the wrist. That was before a lot of the companies started making dedicated wristwatches from the factory. So you might see some of these quote, unquote, "trench watches" from the First World War with what looked like soldered on lugs, and that's because that's the case.
Nick Caruso:
No pun intended.
Oren Hartov:
No pun intended, yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. I had no idea. I mean, people were modding watches. The people invented the wristwatch, instead of the other way around.
Oren Hartov:
I think there are instances in which we speak about a brand where maybe they had pocket watch cases and began producing wristwatches and were doing this themselves. The company was taking their cases and modifying them. And there were also instances of people modifying their own.
Oren Hartov:
Eventually, you get to a point during the war... I couldn't point you to a specific period of time within those four years, 1914 to 1918, in which this happened, but at some point, there was a period in which we're talking about dedicated wristwatches, even though they're largely using for a long time pocket watch cases and pocket watch movements. So you'll see these very oversized looking wristwatches with these very sort of diminutive lugs and straps, and they're kind of odd looking, and that's because they were really a transitional product.
Oren Hartov:
The other thing they had on them very often was a shrapnel guard. You'll see this latticework of metal over the dial. That was to protect against shrapnel. So there were these wire cages over the watch so that they wouldn't get destroyed or during combat.
Nick Caruso:
Geez, that's serious business. That's like Iron Man suit. What is it, the first suit he makes in a cave kind of-
Oren Hartov:
Exactly.
Nick Caruso:
... compared to what we've got now. Those, I imagine, if someone out there is looking to collect trench watch, these modded watches, it'd be a little difficult to come by? No?
Oren Hartov:
You'd be surprised. There were so many millions of men in combat during World War I that even a cursory sort of sweep on eBay, you'd come across piles of them. It's obviously the same thing for watches from the Second World War, because we're talking about even more people, even more combatants. So you can find them fairly easily. And because a lot of them are pocket watches or converted pocket watches, they're not terribly expensive.
Oren Hartov:
If this is something you're interested in collecting, finding them in condition is a different thing. But you can find them in condition, and it's not like collecting vintage military watches from the '60s, '70s. Some of those models can be pretty expensive and hard to come by.
Nick Caruso:
Sure. Why would a pocket watch be in better condition than a different type of timepiece?
Oren Hartov:
No, it wouldn't. I'm saying that finding one in good condition, finding a good condition wristwatch or pocket watch conversion from the First World War might be difficult, but finding them in general, they're pretty abundant.
Nick Caruso:
I see, I see, I see. So you've got the shrapnel guard. Were there other modifications or other sort of like early features of this type of timepiece that we see in historical stuff?
Oren Hartov:
Sure. We're talking about the beginning of luminous material on watches. You obviously needed to be able to see these watches at night.
Oren Hartov:
In the beginning, they were using radium. They didn't realize at the beginning that radium is highly radioactive, and so you might be familiar with radium girls. A lot of the factories, especially one very notorious one that I think was in New Jersey, it was United Radium or American Radium, something like that, they had women doing the painting of radium onto dials, because as far as I understand, more like a smaller hand might have a more delicate touch when painting a really tiny detail on a dial.
Nick Caruso:
Wow.
Oren Hartov:
So a lot of the factory workers were women, and they had them lick the brushes in order to straighten out the strands of the brushes. So-
Nick Caruso:
I-
Oren Hartov:
... that was a hell of a lawsuit.
Nick Caruso:
Geez. Yeah, no kidding. I was aware of the general story. I didn't realize it was that sort of gruesome.
Oren Hartov:
That is where they realized, I think... And I think this is later after the war. I think we're talking about the '20s, if I'm remembering correctly. But this is when so many of them started getting cancer, they eventually, as far as I understand, that's where the realization was made that there was a correlation there. But certainly during the First World War, you will see a lot of these watches, and really, indeed, any watch with radium, you might see a burn on the dial. It looks like discoloration. That's because the radium is radioactive. It's discolored, burned the dial.
Nick Caruso:
Geez.
Oren Hartov:
But that was the first thing that they used for luminescence on a military watch. And you can recognize a lot of the... Especially ones that were dedicated for military use. There were watches during the First World War dedicated for military use, and they have sort of a particular look to the numerals and the hands sometimes, and you can see discolored radium. It turns to this sort of sickly yellow color, like parchment.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, so I mean, are those watches still dangerous? I don't know the half-life of radium.
Oren Hartov:
It's quite long. Yeah, the real answer is-
Nick Caruso:
Really?
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. The answer is-
Nick Caruso:
Oh God.
Oren Hartov:
... yes. The answer is you probably don't want to wear that. Radium, there really wasn't a transition from radium to tritium... Which is still radioactive. Less harmful, as far as I understand, than radium. But there wasn't a transition to tritium until 1960s.
Nick Caruso:
Good Lord.
Oren Hartov:
So you'll find... I have a watch of my grandfather's with radium. Probably not best to wear that.
Nick Caruso:
No. No. You need a lead undershirt or something to-
Oren Hartov:
Exactly.
Nick Caruso:
... pop under it. Maybe a full suit. Certainly if it's a pocket watch, you want to be careful.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, so I can drop half knowledge here. I just realized as we were talking. Because I know that the... Or at least maybe this is just a myth. I don't know. But the Cartier Tank wristwatch, the infamous rectangular dress watch, is said to have sort of been based on World War I tanks. Is that true? Am I correct?
Oren Hartov:
That's the story. The story is that I guess it was based on an early... Either a Renault or a Pershing, I guess. My World War I tank knowledge is lacking, but maybe a Renault, because I think some of the first tanks were French, Renault. Maybe it was a Pershing. I can't remember. But in any case, supposedly the lines of that case are based on one of the first tanks that emerged during the war.
Nick Caruso:
Amazing. Quite the genesis. I'm going to choose not to be insulted that you didn't brush up on World War I-
Oren Hartov:
World War I tank knowledge?
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, military transport stuff. Okay, so obviously, we've come a long way from that. We're not irradiating people's wrists with current tactical or military watches. But you mentioned G-Shock. I'm going to make a big leap. This is almost a century of progress here. G-Shock might be the first thing to come to mind. The first brand to come to mind when someone says tactical watch, or when you think of folks who are current military or ex-military, kind of like trend in that direction. I don't really have much of a specific question there, but I wonder if you can sort of talk about how G-Shock came to be and sort of took over that space in the way it has.
Oren Hartov:
In the 1980s, one of Casio's... I can't remember if he was a director or a design director or a development director. I forgot what his position was, but he was looking to make a very, very highly shock-resistant, tough watch. I think the first one came out in '83. Don't quote me, but I think somewhere around there. And indeed, if you look at one of the first prototypes, it's like a ball. It's not even quite a watch yet. They're working on the sort of shock resistance and everything of this thing. I think he had specific parameters in mind for what he wanted this watch to be able to do.
Oren Hartov:
We're in 2021. They've been around quite awhile. But just given the qualities of the watch, your average G-Shock, having 200 meters of water resistance, having shock resistance, having a whole host of calendar functionality, stopwatch is super important, having all this stuff and being able to get it for less than a hundred dollars is huge.
Oren Hartov:
We're long past the time of being issued a wristwatch. And for most units in most armies, it's not common practice, unless you're in a very specialized unit and need something specialized, or if it's like a commemorative sort of thing. So if everybody needs to buy their own watch, can't be insisting upon something expensive, but you also need it to be highly robust. And given G-Shock's reach, you can buy a G-Shock... I've seen G-Shocks for sale in 30 countries. They're just that ubiquitous. So I think all these things combined have made it sort of the de facto military watch of today.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, they used to advertise that you could hit these with a hammer, right? Literally videos of these being just struck with sledgehammers and working.
Oren Hartov:
Crazy stuff. Yeah. Dropped from insane heights, and flooded and all sorts of... If you look at an exploded view of a G-Shock, it's not like there's some outer case and then a movement inside. I mean, it's this multilevel, multilayer exploded drawing of all these different parts that come together to impart the high shock resistance and water resistance and all the stuff that goes into making a G-Shock so tough.
Nick Caruso:
It's wild. I mean, they've really branched out too. It's not like it's just a very simple watch underneath a bunch of armor, there are digital versions or analog versions, there are combos, there's a new smartwatch, there's connected versions. It's really an impressive array in terms of features and price and capability and all that.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah, you can buy a G-Shock at $80 or 100. You can buy a G-Shock at $40. You can buy a G-Shock at a thousand dollars. The new smartwatch, you and I were talking about today, I think it has the world's first microphone that's water resistant to 200 meters.
Nick Caruso:
Right. Something like that, yeah. It's an OLED display on the smartwatch too. It's crazy stuff.
Oren Hartov:
I think not all of this functionality would be directly applicable or useful in military setting. I think the one thing with smartwatches is that there is a... There are rooms you don't enter with your smartwatch or connected watch. So that's one thing that's kind of dicey about having a watch with a microphone on it, having a watch with GPS on it. Probably some things you don't think about there. But a lot of this other functionality is super useful and relatively affordable.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. It's controversial enough that James Bond puts a diver under a tux. I can't imagine trying to stuff a 44 millimeter fiberglass case under-
Oren Hartov:
Exactly. [crosstalk 00:16:47].
Nick Caruso:
... there too. Yeah. So if that's kind of the de facto sort of like military watch, so to speak, even if it isn't standard issue, is it possible to even peg sort of standard necessary features of a dive watch? Like what defining characteristics they are, how can you define one these days.
Oren Hartov:
Of a tactical watch you mean? Not a dive-
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, sorry.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah, I think... Well, again, I think this definition is kind of fluid, but I think in probably most militaries, there are some features that you really can't do without. I very quickly... I didn't want to wear a G-Shock during my service, because I'm a watch nerd and I didn't want a digital watch. It took me roughly an hour to understand in the beginning that I needed to go out and buy a G-Shock. I was wearing an analog watch, quartz powered watch, and I needed to time everything. I was given 30 seconds to do this, a minute to do that, five minutes to do that, and I needed a stopwatch. So the first thing I would say is probably having some sort of stopwatch functionality. It doesn't make sense not to in 2021.
Oren Hartov:
I'd say another is serious water resistance. Even if you're not actually diving with it or swimming with it, I've been on top of a hill in the pouring rain for hours, no shelter. So you don't want your watch to flood.
Oren Hartov:
Robustness, obviously, is another thing. You're banging into stuff constantly, getting in and out of vehicles and weapons and all sorts of stuff.
Nick Caruso:
Sledgehammers. Yeah.
Oren Hartov:
Sledgehammers. Angry platoon sergeants. And then I think you also want something non-reflective. Depending on the army, depending on how they do it, I was never allowed to have a watch without a cover on it. I mean, I could walk around base without a cover on it, but the second you're out in the field, the watch is covered.
Nick Caruso:
Meaning what? A hinged cap or something? Or...
Oren Hartov:
It used to be like that. Certainly when my dad was in, it was a leather cuff with a hinged cap. Now it's really just a... It looks like a wristband, like a stretchy sort of gummy thing. Really anything that can cover it and be easily moved. Because even if the band is black, even if the watch is black and non-reflective, obviously on a digital watch, even if you do so accidentally, the entire dial lights up. And if you're in the field and everything is pitch black, and all of a sudden, your dial lights up, it's pretty easy to see from pretty far away.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that's the modern equivalent of the cigarette glowing.
Oren Hartov:
Exactly.
Nick Caruso:
Right? Saving Private Ryan would be a different movie if digital watches were around. Do you mind talking about your military service, like more experience around how it relates to watches and watch use?
Oren Hartov:
Sure. Yeah, I don't know that I have a ton of anything revelatory, but like I said, I found out very quickly, at least for the first, I don't know, 10 plus months, that I needed a stopwatch. So went out and I bought a G-Shock, and it was the equivalent of about 80 bucks and still have that thing. It needed to be... We'd take a piece of thin paracord and tie it around the bands, such that in case the band breaks, the watch is still on your wrist. You don't want to leave that in the field.
Nick Caruso:
Wow. Yeah.
Oren Hartov:
And then it's covered all the time. The second I finished my advanced training, I took that off and put my analog watch back on. I didn't want to think of being made to run everywhere in 30 seconds.
Nick Caruso:
Right. Yeah, I could imagine.
Oren Hartov:
But yeah, it was less useful than the G-Shock. I mean, I fully admit that the G-Shock is the more useful watch. I can time something to the millisecond rather than glancing down at an analog dial and saying, "When did the time start?" or whatever.
Oren Hartov:
And then I think the only time I can remember being made to take it off is when I jumped. I was in a paratrooper brigade. When you jump, they make you remove your wristwatch. The reason is you're doing a static line jump. The parachute is hooked up to a cable in the aircraft, and when you exit the aircraft, the shoot is pulled for you. If that line gets hooked on something like a watch, you're going to leave your watch and your arm in the plane. So they make you take your watch off and put it in your shirt pocket.
Nick Caruso:
Right. Yeah, you don't want to have to catch limbs once you're on the ground.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, that's wild stuff. But you mentioned movements. I mean, obviously, electronics and the digitization of everything changed warfare completely, but even something as simple as quartz and then digital, the transition into digital watches must've had a profound effect on the sort of like military applications, beyond just timing your runs and all that.
Oren Hartov:
I think it did probably from several different perspectives. One is just the cost-effectiveness of producing a quartz watch and affordability of the watch. One is just resistance to shock and resistance to other things like that. I would much rather have a quartz watch on my wrist if I'm the guy on the 50 caliber machine gun, than a hand-wound or automatic watch. That's a lot of recoil. A lot of...
Nick Caruso:
You could fill your power reserve with just a squeeze of the trigger.
Oren Hartov:
Exactly. In terms of the movements becoming really sort of fully electronic and smart, integration of computing. That's where I think it's getting... It must be weird today. I do reserve service and guys show up wearing all different sorts of watches. But when I was in, the Apple Watch was just coming out. And no one would have worn one anyway. They're not tough enough in a combat application.
Oren Hartov:
However, there are instances in which you're made to put your phone in another room or not allowed a phone to have something with a microphone on it. So I would imagine it would probably be the same for let's say when the Apple Watch or whatever watch gets tough enough to really use in a combat application, I'm sure there are scenarios in which, just for security, you're not allowed to wear one or you have to turn certain functionality off. Especially if you're in a... Let's say you're wearing one of these and you're in a combat support echelon. You're not in the field, but you're in a room with a lot of whirring computers and a lot of intelligence passing back and forth. I could just envision situations in which you're not allowed to wear a smartwatch.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. I'm just picturing something as tense a situation as I can imagine, I don't know, a submarine or a bunker or something, and someone's text notification goes off-
Oren Hartov:
Exactly.
Nick Caruso:
... on their Apple Watch. That's the modern equivalent of the cigarette, maybe. What about specifics beyond G-Shock? I mean, we've talked about the sort of origin, the proto-military watch with a shrapnel cage on it. And now we've talked about G-Shocks that literally have Google Maps visible on their face. What are other common or kind of go-to or interesting current military tactical style watches?
Oren Hartov:
A lot of the other stuff, if it's not something like a G-Shock, a digital watch, it's really just a quartz version, very often, of a field or a dive watch.
Oren Hartov:
You have a company like Marathon. Canadian company that's making military watches for a long time and had contracts with Canadians, Americans, and other militaries. If you look at their watches, they do have automatic dive watches, but they also have quartz field watches that were made for very specific applications.
Oren Hartov:
There was one, their Navigator model, that was made for either parachuting or for pilots, possibly. It has a resin case and it was made to withstand many, many sort of atmospheres of pressure and Gs. So it's like a fairly inexpensive quartz watch with a 12-hour bezel on it. I've used one of those in the military before, and they're great. If you don't need the stopwatch functionality, you just need a really, really tough watch and you can track a second time zone. Sorry, if you're hearing noise, it's my computer is about to take off into the stratosphere.
Nick Caruso:
No, that's okay. I've got a thunderstorm happening outside my window.
Oren Hartov:
There you go.
Nick Caruso:
So we're dueling.
Oren Hartov:
When I run video on this computer, it's not happy. So that's one type of watch, and there are all different versions of that. Another watch I saw a lot, at least in the IDF, is essentially a copy of a Seiko diver but in quartz. Sort of looks like an SKX0013, like a small dive watch with a rotating bezel, but it's quartz. I've seen a lot of those. Guys who maybe they're done training, they don't want to wear their G-Shock anymore, or they're just really stubborn and have worn them from the beginning.
Oren Hartov:
The other sort of thing I hear about once in a while, see, would be an automatic type dive watch. Maybe you're in a very specific unit. Maybe if you're in special operations and they have a unit watch. Maybe it's gifted to each operator, or maybe everyone purchases one. Or if it's in a tier one unit and they have just a black hole of a budget, maybe they give everyone a very specific watch. But honestly, I've known few of that type of guy and a lot of them were wearing G-Shocks. So I think we'd like to think it's more romantic than that, but for the most part, it's not.
Nick Caruso:
G-Shocks, like you said, are as little as 40 bucks and they go up to well over a thousand, certainly. I mean, is that the limit to the range that you would put in this category, or can we go outside that? Obviously, you said automatic watches count too, but...
Oren Hartov:
I mean, listen, at some point, you get to a high speed enough unit and a lot of the equipment is customized. All sorts of equipment. So theoretically, I mean, someone might be wearing whatever.
Oren Hartov:
I remember coming across a GMT-Master II from the early 2000s was being sold on one of the watch websites, and it had belonged to a Delta operator who wore it down range in the early 2000s. He had bought it, deployed with it. Did he need to be wearing a multi-thousand dollar Rolex on his wrist in the early 2000s when a lot of guys were wearing G-Shocks? No. But is it a watch that's certainly tough enough for the job? I would argue yes.
Oren Hartov:
If you go back to the days of the post exchange in Vietnam, a lot of guys wore... When Rolex was really a tool watch and not a luxury watch yet, see plenty of guys, especially if they were UDT divers, teams guys, wearing Subs. You could save up a month or two's salary and buy a Sub at the post exchange, and you could find pictures of guys from that conflict wearing that watch.
Oren Hartov:
I know a pilot who flew special operations missions and he had bought a... I think it was his father bought him a Rolex at Subic Bay PX in the 1960s, and he wore it during his deployments flying helicopters. So you certainly see that stuff.
Nick Caruso:
Wow. It's amazing. I've been kind of wrapping up these conversations with an ultimate advice question, asking someone runs up to you on the street, says, "I want a military watch. I want a tactical watch. What should I get?" But I'm going to change it up for you. I'm going to say this person runs up. They're a little nerdy and they say something like, "What is the quintessential tactical or military watch?" What would you tell him?
Oren Hartov:
I would say today as, again, unromantic as the notion is that the quintessential tactical watch to my mind is a G-Shock. It's like a 6900 series or some other, because there really is no definitive one. There are so many. But one of these sub-hundred dollar basic functionality G-Shocks is the thing I've seen on the most wrists, mine included, in the service today. So that, to me, just given the ubiquitousness and given the appropriateness of the product and the reliability of it. It's not some all black, analog dial, automatic dive watch. It's a $40, 50, 60 G-Shock.
Nick Caruso:
Right. I mean, is it so popular and relevant now that it would kind of like take the top spot in all-time tactical military watches?
Oren Hartov:
The only thing I don't really know is if you go back past... I don't know, you go back into the '90s, how ubiquitous they would be. There was a time when a company like Marathon or CWC was still issuing watches by the tens of thousands in Desert Storm, or even up through Afghanistan and Iraq. So the point at which the tide really turned and this became the watch, I can't actually pinpoint. I could say probably for the last 20 years, I would imagine that this is the watch. We go back much beyond that, even into the 1990s, maybe we're not quite at that saturation point yet. But yeah, certainly today, I would say at least in Western for Western powers, this is the watch.
Nick Caruso:
Great. We are in the golden age of the tactical watch, it turns out.
Oren Hartov:
I think so.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Personally, I like my G-Shock. I'm just personally glad they're not radioactive.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. That's better.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, cool. I've taken up a lot of your time. You've been insightful, as always. So I'm going to call it quits there. But appreciate your time and I appreciate everybody tuning in to this episode.
Nick Caruso:
Everything we talked about, there's going to be all sorts of links down in the show notes around the website, depending on wherever you're listening to this. And wherever you are listening, I hope you can subscribe to the podcast and give us a little review. Tell us what you think. Hopefully, you think good things and pop a five star on there to give us a little boost in the algorithm. But be honest. Follow your heart. I don't want to sway anybody outside their comfort zone.
Nick Caruso:
But you can also get in touch with us on social media, @gearpatrol, one word, across all platforms. You can drop a comment on the website, gearpatrol.com, on all our posts, especially on Hartov's stuff. You can heckle him about why he doesn't know the quintessential military watch in the '90s. And then you can reach out to me too. You can tell me whatever you want in an email at podcast@gearpatrol.com. Sorry again for the thunder, but it's a nice break to the humidity over here. Hartov, on the West Coast, thank you for your time. It's always a pleasure to chat with you.
Oren Hartov:
Thanks, dude. This was fun.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, for sure. And everybody else, I'm Nick Caruso. Until next time, take care.