In today’s episode, we discuss Samsung's newly announced foldable touchscreen smartphones, the Z Fold 3 and Z Flip 3. Next, Lamborghini is teasing a revival of their iconic Countach sports car. We’ll talk about the timing of this release, and what we’re hoping for from the charging bull. And finally, we’ll be joined by Associate Editor Evan Malachosky to talk about Buck Mason and Sunspel’s new athletic wear collections, and just what they tell us about the state of athleisure in 2021.
Episode Navigation:
1:17 — Samsung Z Flip & Fold 3
17:08 — Lamborghini Countach
27:03 — Sunspel & Buck Mason's Athletic Collections
Featured and Related:
• Everything Samsung Just Announced At Its Big Unpacked Event — Gear Patrol
• Folding Phones Are the New 3D TV — Wired
• Lamborghini Countach LP1 800-4: This Looks Like It And It's Amazing — Jalopnik
• Lamborghini reports record profits in 2020, CEO teases electric future — CNBC
• The Trail Collection from Buck Mason
• How did Athleisure Take Over American Fashion? — The Atlantic
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I'm J.D. DiGiovanni, and this is the Gear Patrol Podcast. It's Friday, August 13th, 2021. On today's episode, Samsung announced their newest generation of foldable touchscreen smartphones, the Galaxy Z Fold 3 and Galaxy Z Flip 3. Next, Lamborghini is teasing a revival of their iconic Countach sports car. We'll talk about the timing of this release and what we're hoping for from the charging bowl. And finally, we'll be joined by associate editor, Evan Malachosky, to talk about Buck Mason and Sunspel's new athletic wear collections and just what they tell us about the state of athleisure in 2021. Today I'm joined by deputy photography editor, Henry Phillips. Henry, hello.
Henry Phillips:
Ahoy. Ahoy.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Are you a captain?
Henry Phillips:
Only on the weekends.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
We're also joined by Atlantan and platform's producer, Scott Ulrich. Scott, how are you doing?
Scott Ulrich:
I'm good. I'm bewildered that I've been asked to come back a third time. I'm pleased that my takes haven't been so dumb to keep me from coming back.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
No, they're appropriately spicy.
Scott Ulrich:
Good.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, speaking of spicy takes, let's hop into it and see if we have any on this new Samsung. Samsung introduced the Z series of phones back in 2019 to pretty mixed results. Its Fold was among the first phones to employ the use of seamless folding touchscreen display. It was kind of marvelous to see in person. I think I remember looking at one right around the time that it came out. But as cool as it was, it wasn't without its drawbacks. Stuff kind of easily got into the display after being open and closed enough times. It wasn't waterproof. There was a kind of warping in the middle of the screen that threw you off a little bit, and it was super expensive.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Now, the Fold, the phone that kind of folds out like a book, and the Flip, a phone that folds open like an old flip phone are in their third generation, and they're boasting fixes to a lot of those old issues, as well as some notable improvements on the previous model. Think bigger screens, lighter weight, more resilient glass, a thinner profile, and even some water resistance. But the question remains. Are folding smartphones a novelty? Or is this actually starting to catch on?
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Scott, I'm going to throw it to you first. Are you expecting to see these phones are kind of around Atlanta in the next six to 12 months?
Scott Ulrich:
Man, I would hope so because I would love to try one out and find out the type of person that buys one of these over the other options that exist. I think it's a cool idea and I like looking at them. I really enjoyed watching their unboxing videos that exist, but I can't really imagine it's going to catch on. I appreciate them addressing issues that they've had in the past especially with waterproofing, which at this point is a necessity, and other things. I think it's great to continue innovating and making these products better. I'm just confused. It's like I don't really understand why you would need a phone that folds. Yeah, I can't really get far past that. I guess there's an audience for it. I guess there are people that buy these. Yeah, I don't know.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
You know, one of the things that seems appealing about this type of phone is that it may have a smaller footprint in your pocket. Henry, does that mean anything to you? Is that actually important?
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. Yo know, I like the smallest iPhone that Apple makes and I always kind of try and buy the smallest iPhone that apple makes. Right now I have the 12 mini. I'm a huge proponent of phones that are small and pocketable and nice. But we tried out the original one when it came into the office, and it was really magical to flip open and close. It felt really cool and futuristic, but there was a crease in the middle. There was serious constraints and physical limitations to this technology as awesome as it was. I wonder if they've gotten around that.
Henry Phillips:
I'm excited to just kind of see hands-on and see if these feel tangibly different, not only in the little tweaks that they made around secondary screen sizes or water resistance, but whether the core function, the core conceit of the thing is any different or better. Because you see photos and videos of these phones a year later after people have used them and there is a fat crease right down the middle. It's not the display necessarily. It's the plastic covering it, but it's very weird. It's striking how bizarre that feels on a $2,000 phone.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Ulrich:
And not only is that crease distracting and weird to navigate around, but like, I am the type of person that gets anxious about with every photo I take on my camera, the shutter count. That's constantly something I'm thinking about. And when you're confronted, every single time you look at your phone, which is probably a lot. I'm going to be thinking about like, how long is this thing going to last? Because I mean, a huge problem with these folding touchscreen phones is they break very easily. I can't imagine them lasting a very long time. And with every time you fold it, I have to imagine that that hinge gets a little bit weaker and easier to break.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Scott, shutter count. What is that?
Scott Ulrich:
Your camera only has so many photos it can take, I guess. I don't know a whole lot about the technical aspects of it. In fact, it's never even been a factor for me. I have no reason to be anxious about it, but every time I'm taking photos, it's like, "Oh, that was a bad photo. I shouldn't have taken that." I'm just running up the shutter count through for no reason.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
That's interesting.
Scott Ulrich:
Which I think is an anxiety a lot of people share. But yeah, I'm just constantly anxious about how my toys are going to break. I don't know. Maybe that's just me.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Oh, that's so interesting.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I have always loved my camera phone just because I could take photos without thinking at all about it, like at all.
Scott Ulrich:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
J.D. DiGiovanni:
So maybe I'm not being as judicious as I should be with my stupid photos of dogs I see on the subway, so it's noted. Noted. Thinking about this phone, there's a part of me that kind of wants to dislike the tech of a folding phone, but it is just really cool. There's just something amazing about the fact that you can fold out a touch screen display. And it almost holds some of the magic that I think that an original touchscreen display phone did when I was back in junior high. I remember hearing someone say, "Apple's going to release this phone." And it was like, "That's science fiction. There's no way." There's a part of me that's felt the same way about this kind of technology, is that it does feel a little science fictiony and bleeding edge. At least it did, especially in 2019.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
But when I think about whether or not I want it, the benefit of it seems to be that you can have a huge screen on your phone. And I'm not sure that I want that much more from my smartphone, you know? When I think about an improved life and an improved relationship with my technology, a bigger viewport through which to view more media actually isn't really what comes to mind. I think that's kind of what I'm looking for a little bit less. I'm not sure if I speak for enough of the market for that to actually mean anything, but it does strike me as being kind of a step in the wrong direction and at least in terms of what I would want. And maybe it kind of just step in the wrong direction just generally speaking where Samsung seems to be trying for something that's just really striking and impressive technically but may or may not actually have a fit with the market.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah, that's [inaudible 00:08:35].
Henry Phillips:
I think that's a great take. I was especially struck by that kind of notion with the Fold, the original one, which goes from turning... It turns from a narrow, but fairly normal phone shape into a kind of tall-ish square, which is particularly not useful for just about anything, watching movies or browsing. I mean, potentially, browsing the web is a solid use case, but it's not a form factor that people seek out. And so, you're right. You just kind of get this big real estate for something.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah.
Henry Phillips:
It didn't quite sit with me. The Fold, however though, I do like the core conceit, maybe that's because I have a soft spot for Motorola razrs. But the idea that you could have a really small phone with a really unobtrusive screen that can provide core information, and then you can actually have a smartphone almost as that thing that you're talking about, where you minimize consumption when you're checking the time or something. And then you can bring it out and really do smartphone stuff.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
It is worth saying before you get too far, the Fold is the one that opens like a book and the Flip is the one that opens like a Motorola razr.
Henry Phillips:
[crosstalk 00:10:05] at this point.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah, it's worth mentioning. It's also kind of tricky. The names of these phones are just too damn close.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
It's very easy to get that wrong. So I just want to note that.
Henry Phillips:
Okay. Yes, exactly. But yeah, I like the Flip. I think the core premise is cool. I totally agree with you, J.D. I'm happy to see that this technology and new form factors and new approaches to something that has been unchanged for 15 years. I like that.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah. It is a product that has a wow factor. When I tried it for the first time, it really does have that effect of like, "Wow, I can't believe this exists." A feeling that I haven't had in a very long time. It is pretty amazing to me that they were able to create it and sell it. Yeah, with the Fold, obviously it's going to be about size and portability. I don't know. I just think that that problem has been solved by offering phones in multiple sizes. My wife has the 12 mini. It's super small. She can fit it anywhere, in her purse or small women's jean pockets. I have the standard. It's great for me if it's in my pocket. My mom has the big one, which she can... Her eyesight's not great and she can read just fine on it.
Scott Ulrich:
Not to echo the same take last time we talked about phones, but I don't know, you're going to need something really compelling to take people away from iPhone, which obviously dominates the culture. I think that the Fold is a good idea, but I don't think that that's enough because it doesn't actually solve a problem. It seems like a gimmick.
Scott Ulrich:
I will say though, something that I am really happy to see on these phones is the fingerprint reader. That is something I really, really miss from the iPhone even before COVID. I mean, during COVID it's been horrible with the masks. I'm so tired of the, "Oh, it's so awful that I have to put in my 4-digit passcode." But I mean, really, it's like I just had a little technique where I could pull my iPhone out of my pocket and just automatically locate the fingerprint reader while I was doing it so that it was unlocked by the time that I was even looking at it, which is the expediency that I deserve as a consumer. And yeah, I think the face ID was kind of a step backward. I really missed that feature. Again, that's not quite enough to pull me away from just getting another iPhone, but I'm glad to see that's still being used.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah. And it is worth mentioning there are a couple of other neat features with these phones that they're interesting independent of the kind of Fold function. Galaxy Z Fold 3 has also a below screen selfie camera that it doesn't even show up on the display. It's sitting right under that display there. It has a kind of just a high refresh rate screen, which is something that I think the iPhones are still not quite there yet on three cameras. Kind of S Pen support and compatibility. There's a lot going on here other than just the fold. It is worth mentioning because that's where our focus is, but it's pretty big, because when you think about just how expensive these things are compared to other phones as well in what you're paying for, it's quite a lot. I think the Z Fold 3 starts at $1,800 and the Z Flip 3 actually starts at $999, but it starts at 128 gigs. So you're not getting a lot of storage right off the bat with that entry-level price, but if you wanted it, it is a little bit more accessible.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I think that the best take I've read on this so far was from Lauren Goode over at WIRED. She made a cool comparison to the Galaxy Folds, the Galaxy Z line and the Fold and Flip, to 3D TV. A 3D TV was a technology, and her telling that was really came to the fore after market saturation point where it was just something technical and impressive that manufacturer's delivered on, but never actually really came to fruition for a couple of reasons. I think one of them was price. The second was just the fact that they were reliant on the content providers to produce a bunch of 3D content for your television. And when you think about the kind of challenge that I think some of these phones are going to be facing, and maybe this is just because I'm thinking a lot about viewport sizes because we're doing some work on our email right now, is just like these are really weird looking viewpoints, right?
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
They're really dynamic and different. I can imagine a world in which you're really down to consume content in this size screen, but it does seem to be a bit of a challenge from an app development standpoint and from a content creation standpoint. For those who want to have it supported by some of the bigger platforms, it's like how big of a market are these viewports going to have at first? And if it's going to be relatively low, then there's not going to be that much of an incentive for people to design content to be optimized for these viewport sizes. They are kind of unique. So yeah, it seems like Samsung, they're taking a big swing here for the third time really in improving on the technology that is, I think kind of hard not to admit, is very impressive, but whether or not this is going to stick seems to still be an open question here.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah, I think a Jurassic Park quote applies, "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." And it's like, "Good job making it. That's awesome that it exists. That's amazing. Really. Good job. But why? Why did you do this?"
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I can't think of a better note to end on than Jurassic park. We'll just leave it there. Write in to let us know. I mean, what do you think about this stuff? Are you planning on getting one? Do you have one of the previous generations? Reach out at podcast@gearpatrol.com or at any of our social channels. We're just @gearpatrol. We'd love to hear from you.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
All right, moving on. You don't have to know cars that well to know that the Lamborghini Countach is iconic. It was in production from 1974 to 1990. This absolutely wild-looking Italian vehicle just became synonymous with the term supercar as well as the kind of signpost for 1980s American Access. It is futuristic, fast, and unabashedly out of your price range. By the looks of it, it may be coming back.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Lamborghini has been teasing the return of the Countach, Countach rather, over the past week with videos, posts in social media. And now, some detail shots. They're being a little bit coy as to when they're releasing the car or what exactly it's going to look like, but we're here to speculate wildly.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Henry, we're recording this on a Thursday so by the time that this comes out, the answer may already be clear. But is it reasonable to expect that this kind of Countach rerelease is going to be something as big as like a new line of car like the Huracan? Or is this going to be something really small and bespoke and cute, and we'll kind of not see too many of them?
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. I mean, that's the $3.5 million question, or roughly what people are going to guess that these things will be priced at. Pebble Beach is coming up big, kind of car... It's hard to describe. It's like a car show for generally old cars, but then some brands are now starting to introduce new cars at the Pebble Beach Golf Course in Monterey, California. Originally, it was a fairly gathering to appreciate older cars. Brands kind of flocked in. And now you get launches like this. Most people are expecting that we'll start to hear something Sunday-ish as the show kicks off.
Henry Phillips:
But what exactly we'll hear? We don't really know yet. It's a little bit early for Lamborghini to replace their high-end staple car, the Aventador, which is the Lamborghini. It's the expensive one. It's their V12. It's the big guy that costs a lot of money. So it's looking more and more like this is going to be if not a really, really limited one-off like some of their recent ones, like the... They all have crazy names. The Sian was a fairly recent one. If it's not going to be a run of four or five cars, I think it's reasonable to think that this is probably going to be in the very low hundreds of production. So not a ton, but a bit more than the really, really rarefied air.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Gotcha. Yeah, you know-
Scott Ulrich:
You know what this is? Go ahead, J.D.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Go ahead.
Scott Ulrich:
You know, I'll go ahead. I'll tell you what this is. This is Lamborghini recognizing that a bunch of Redditers just made a lot of money on the stock market by dealing GameStop stocks. And they all love Wolf of Wall street, they all idolized Jordan Belfort. And they're all saying, "I'm going to buy a Lamborghini Countach." That's what this is. They're catching us.
Henry Phillips:
This is an amazing response to a bunch of diamond hand fools.
Scott Ulrich:
Yep.
Henry Phillips:
I didn't even think about that. Yeah, no, it's too good to be true. I think we should start that theory. That is the official line.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
That's great. I mean-
Scott Ulrich:
It's out there now.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
The next question I was going to ask was, this thing has been out of production for longer than I've been alive. Why is it coming back now? Meme stocks and just nihilist day traders seems like a perfect reason as to why that would come back now.
Scott Ulrich:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I mean, there's definitely something there.
Henry Phillips:
[crosstalk 00:21:20]. No, it's one of those... I guess it's probably the Lamborghini that made Lamborghini what it is today, or at least what it is in people's minds, which is this wild and crazy Italian automaker who makes earthbound rocket ships. But it's kind of weird that they'd bring it back, to me at least, as a non serialized or a non really big production around car. It's cool. I love that they're doing some retro stuff. I think the styling of the Countach will lend itself to some cool modern interpretation. But yeah, it just feels kind of weird.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I mean, maybe it's an opportunity to improve on what was sure an iconic car, but also a pretty flawed one. Every review I see of this car when it was in production between the '70s and the first year of the '90s was that it was amazing, it was very fast, it was impressive to see and to drive, but it just had a bunch of flaws. The window didn't go down all the way. You couldn't see out the back to back it up. A lot of the interior was just confusingly put together. The windshield wiper didn't actually cover the entire car. So I don't know. I mean, it kind of seems ridiculous to say this, but there was a decent amount left to be wanting with the car that was almost $300,000. And maybe with a kind of rerelease here, there's some opportunity to improve on a sure an iconic car, but one that maybe had some notable flaws.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. I think you get a chance to take the name, which was by far the most recognizable bit and then redo all the fiddly engine and electronic bits that yeah by all accounts just absolutely didn't work.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah. It seems like people now are more nostalgic than ever. I think that there's a lot of nostalgia for the '80s right now. Nostalgia's kind of a harder thing to quantify than ever, because there just some of these subcultures and different fashion trends, but it definitely feels like there's a lot of like '80s stuff right now. Yeah, I think it's cool. I think people like this stuff especially if they can manage to make it look like a sick '80s car. I understand a lot of safety standards have changed, and just the way that cars are shaped and designed have come a long way and for good reason, and you can't do too much there. But I don't know. It'll definitely be cool to see, like see in real life, hopefully.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. You hope that they roam the world instead of being tucked away in garages somewhere.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Well, yeah. Yeah, we definitely hope that. I mean, it does make sense that this may be, I don't know, probably not a gamble like what am I saying. But Lamborghini has been on like hell of a run over the past year. They recorded record earnings in 2020, despite the fact that they had shut down their factory for two months. They're in Italy, and that was when the early COVID wave was very bad. Apparently, just the latter half of the year, a huge amount of orders came in for Lamborghinis in general in people who were kind of riding the upside of that wave. They've been recording record earnings in the first half of this year as well. Nostalgia, taking advantage of diamond hands on Reddit, or maybe just some version of a victory lap, I think all could be relatively plausible.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I think the thing I'm going to be looking for not only in this car, but really in any kind of supercar that's going to be hitting the road is just, how is this going to be? What does the power plant look like, you know? Because I think that something that brands like Lamborghini and automakers like Lamborghini are going to have to think about increasingly is that, what does a supercar look like in a world with tightening emissions regulations? How do you make something that's sexy, that's fast, that has a hard to pin down appeal to it when you have to contend with regulators in California and the United States and Europe that are increasingly taking climate change and their commitments to reduce carbon footprints more seriously? Which is a good thing. But I think it's something that high-end automakers like Lamborghini are going to really have to kind of think creatively about.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah, totally.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah.
Scott Ulrich:
I know in the past when I've been shopping for Lamborghini's, that's pretty far out my list of what I'm looking for.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
I'm glad to hear that. Scott is the conscious Lamborghini owner.
Scott Ulrich:
Yes. Always.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
All right. Well, we're all excited to see what this looks like. Scott's already kind of shopping online for some, but let us know what you think. Once again, reach out at podcast@gearpatrol.com. Let us know how many you're going to buy when they come out, and at least I'll beg to ride along.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
There was a time not so long ago when the world of athletic wear was relatively straightforward in what it offered consumers. If you want a gym clothes, you went to a select number of brands and picked out garments based on how they'd help you perform. And maybe not so much how they make you look. This isn't really the case anymore. The state athletic brands we used to go to for generic athletic apparel now offer a far more elevated selection to choose from. In addition to that, there is a whole new constellation of boutique athletic brands to choose from.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
This month, that universe of brands was expanded by two. Sunspel announced their Activewear line, and Buck Mason rolled out their new Trail Collection. For those who don't know, Sunspel is a British-based heritage brand that makes high-end basics; shirts, polos, pants, et cetera. They are literally the type of brands that James Bond would wear. And then, there's Buck Mason, which I think it'd be fair to say is almost like a Los Angeles counterpart. They do elevated casual men's basics. Think sleeve cotton t-shirts, denim, leather jackets, et cetera.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Here with us today to make sense of these new clothing lines and the broader trends we're seeing in the athletic apparel world is assistant editor on the style desk, Evan Malachosky. Evan, nice to have you, man.
Evan Malachosky:
Appreciate it.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Awesome. Well, I think I have two questions for you off the top. First, what do you think of these new lines from each of these brands? Second, how did we get to a point where boutique-type brands are making athletic wear?
Evan Malachosky:
Sure. I mean, I think we're on the sort of tail end of the athleisure trend, if that makes any sense. Obviously, those clothes aren't going anywhere. It's just that... I mean, you can very well call Sunspel's collection, which is I mean comfortable sweatpants and a soft t-shirt, athleisure. And I wouldn't want to necessarily work out too hard in Sunspel clothes. Maybe a light tennis game, maybe a, I don't know, a jog, a walk. But I think that these aren't bad products by any means. I mean, I have the Sunspel sweat pants. I like them a lot. I think we're getting here because these brands don't want to miss out on this sort of boom and explosion of athleisure or active wear. I mean, it's a category that's only going to continue to grow. It's grown a ton in the past decade.
Evan Malachosky:
And yeah, I think they were both making good clothes that you could wear every day, and they thought, "This is what a lot of people are wearing. Why don't we make these things?" I think both of them have been successful launches. I'm not sure about the sales for either, but yeah, I don't think they're bad collections by any means. I think that they make sense even though they don't necessarily make sense.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Right. Yeah. No, they just kind of stand out as somewhat surprising, I think, which is part of the reason why we're having this conversation, is to see brands that you wouldn't necessarily anticipate kind of step into the world of athletic apparel and do just that. I mean, Scott, what is your impression on these?
Scott Ulrich:
You know, I was kind of rolling my eyes at first because I had a similar reaction. If I'm spending this much money on clothes, I don't want to wear them specifically to sweat in and get gross. I think that that price point is probably a little bit different for everybody. But after looking into more, like looking at what they're actually offering, I was surprised to find out that... I mean, specifically within the Buck Mason Collection, it's not that expensive and not even really that much more expensive than something that you could get from Nike. I mean, it definitely is, but the margin, there is not that much different.
Scott Ulrich:
I think what you need to consider next, at least for me, is like, "Okay, where is this stuff being made?" Because everyone knows Nike's production habits are maybe less than ethical. I think that that's something that's very important to a lot of consumers right now. And just looking it up, it sounds like Sunspel's made in England. It sounds like Buck Mason was made in America for a long time, or maybe still is. I kind of found some vague verbiage on their website, but they are addressing it and talking about it.
Scott Ulrich:
And so, I don't know. I don't think that it's something that I'm going to be buying super soon, but if I do find myself in a financial place where it's like, "Okay, this is one step up from the Nike stuff that..." And granted, you can find Nike stuff for much cheaper at Marshall's or TJ Maxx or something, but prices in the Nike store are pretty high. And at the point where this stuff is only a couple steps above that and you're wanting to consume ethically and buy things that were made by people who get paid a fair wage, I'm not positive that that's what this is, but it sounds like it's at least a step in that direction.
Henry Phillips:
That's interesting. I mean, I think I have a funny relationship with really high-end athletic clothing. I've been a cyclist for a long, long time, for, I don't know, 20 years or something, to my mind, this kind of idea of life-stylized or at least the current wave of life-stylized pure sports wear, less athleisure. There are a lot of early brands that came through cycling, chief among which is Rapha. It's been around forever, and almost immediately had that vibe where it was fairly well-made, not tremendously but really expensive and really thoughtfully designed clothing and in an era where cycling clothing was gross.
Henry Phillips:
So I bought in really hard. And so all of this kind of feels natural. Tracksmith to me is just a running Rapha. It's great. It's a little bit more Americana, which I think is fun. And then you get into this post stuff where you've got Sunspel and Buck Mason. I like it a lot. I mean, you start to wonder where the line is between real active wear and just stuff that is made of different materials is.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Right.
Henry Phillips:
But I liked the idea of it a lot. My sister is the world's largest Outdoor Voices advocate, or at least was. I think she may have soured. Mickey Drexler and stuff. But yeah, no, so I like the idea of it. I think where I to look for really high-end sportswear, I'd be excited by the idea that there are a lot of options. I'm curious whether I'll end up pulling the trigger, but I like it especially the Sunspel stuff actually, I find pretty intriguing.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah, I think you've identified a bit of what I find interesting about both of these collections, is that there is a lifestyle element to it that feels informed more by non-athletic wear rather than the other way around. With a lot of athleisure, I think what we saw was a kind of influence of synthetic materials and construction going into something like a blazer or a button up shirt or pants, right? None of the kind of Lululemon's ABC pant. I know it's super popular and is kind of what I think about when it comes to athleisure that you'd see around. There's just something that's striking about that in some ways that this may be already happening in cycling, but in the world of running apparel, so Buck Mason, it's kind of worth noting their Trail Collection is a pair of shorts and a pair of hemmed tee that has a 60/40 polyester blend with I think cotton.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
But we've just generally speaking seen a kind of casualizing of I think a lot of American clothing. And just in general, the office is more casual now. Going out for the evening is more casual. It almost feels as if the parts of our lives that we're allowed to be more casual and more sloppy previously when there were more defined lines are actually now almost getting cleaned up, and that there's almost more of a pressure to have a more even look across a lot of the different things you're doing as opposed to having a period of time where you are dressed up or a period of time where you're a lot like dressed down, I suppose. I don't know. Evan, does that track at all or am I completely off the reservation?
Evan Malachosky:
No, I think that makes a ton of sense. I think that the products that you're talking about that sort of incorporate performance materials, like dress shirts being stretchy or dress pants being stretchy or moisture wicking or whatever it is, it's a whole sort of hiking to bar phenomenon that happened, or the outdoors to the office sort of verbiage that a ton of brands use, it's... I mean, I can see where it's appealing. I don't think that people are taking their stretchy dress trousers on hikes. I mean, they might be, but I think they're still seeking out specialized clothing beyond that, but it might look the same still then. It might be made out of the same material, but they might be buying another pair of pants even though the brand is saying, "Oh, no, wait. You can also take your dress slacks hiking."
Evan Malachosky:
So I think you're right, but I think that the merging of your look across category is purely aesthetic. Obviously, as these categories blur and as the lines that divide them blur, what you wear to the office is going to continue to look more like what you might wear to the gym, or running errands. It's just the direction that we're headed. I mean, the Sunspel and Buck Mason launches in particular, both of those admit that the framework for the t-shirts are the exact same as their lifestyle t-shirts.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Right.
Evan Malachosky:
It's just that they are made from performance materials. I think as people found those comfortable in other settings and for other situations, they'll learn that they work for dressing up or going into the bar and will continue to wear them.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah. I mean, think about the standard wardrobe of anybody. Denim. Okay, that was made to work in. Tennis shoes or sneakers, those were made to play tennis or exercise or whatever. A sweatshirt, that was made for exercise or playing sports or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it happens all the time. It will be really interesting to see, I don't know, where that ends up. I think everybody likes wearing comfortable clothes. Wearing leggings in public has obviously come such a huge way specifically for women in the past 10 years. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see if men have a similar, I don't know, transition if that becomes more commonplace.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah. I think you're totally right to point out the fact that the lines between more formal wear and the athletic wear have always been poorest, Scott.
Scott Ulrich:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
J.D. DiGiovanni:
That Polos for instance, I only really learned this recently, but it was really cool that it started off as just Rene Lacoste wanted something a bit more comfortable to play tennis in, and so developed something that he could unbutton or something that had a collar he could flip up so he wouldn't get sunburned, and ended up becoming like a prep staple. And so, in the same way that we've seen a lot of military garments make their way into everyday life, and where it seems that there's a lot the same conversation between athletic apparel and our more formal wear. But it's just so striking to me to see that that kind of sensibility in terms of like, just being slightly reversed, right? Where we're like looking back at our athletic apparel and being like, "Okay, we can do better. We can clean it up a bit here."
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah. What's funny to me too about this stuff is how it's marketed, specifically to Sporty & Rich brand and the kind of, I don't know, well-to-do preppy image. It feels very popular right now. And it's cool. But kind of like I was saying earlier, if I'm spending more money on clothes, at least for me and a lot of people that I know, it is more about like, "Okay, I want a higher quality garment that was made more ethically." I don't really care about that image. In fact, I mean, I wouldn't be caught dead in a shirt that said Sporty & Rich. I think the brand's cool, but in the circles that I ran in middle school, being called prep was an insult, you know?
Scott Ulrich:
I find it interesting how this stuff is marketed. I hope that as we see more options, if they do indeed come out that, I don't know, it'll just have kind of a wider approach and appeal.
Evan Malachosky:
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, because we talked about the lines between formal wear and more casual sport-oriented clothes blurring. But I mean, nowadays they kind of signals similar things. Like, Sporty & Rich is very clear like, "Wear this, and you seem like you care about your wellbeing. You're busy so you want to be comfortable, or you're active, you whatever X, Y, and Z." And oftentimes, Sporty & Rich in particular, but I mean, other brands fall sort of fall victim to this too, like ALD or whoever it is. Pairing sweatpants and spandex with a Rolex watch or Cartier jewelry, it's this weird phenomena where being able to dress this way signals the same things that a suit might have.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Right. Yeah. It's almost like the symbolic burden that are closed kind of served has been democratized across all the different ways in which we actually wear them. So it's not just the suit you're wearing, but it's the kind of athletic apparel. And probably too, where you're working out [inaudible 00:43:16] own thing, but you know, "What gym are you going to? Is it the 24-Hour Fitness? Or is it the pilates class? I don't know. Henry, you were laughing a little bit there.
Henry Phillips:
Yeah. I mean, it is just a lifestyle thing in across all sides. I think maybe that's why I find the Buck Mason and Sunspel stuff actually kind of intriguing because it is so actively plain almost or understated in a way that, should this stuff... If you were wearing the active t-shirt or literally anything from the Sunspel Collection, it probably looks and feels particularly well-made or expensive, but maybe doesn't necessarily shout about it in a way that a lot of other active wear or whatever, there's got to be some cool term for them, elevated active wear brands would try and subtly but actively hint that this is the elevated active wear.
Henry Phillips:
It's like the Polo. It's created for a purpose without necessarily falling into too many of the similar traps of modern athleisure, which I like. And maybe that's some sort of, I wouldn't say a turning point, but interesting evolution and something that's gone from really shouty to not shouty but with key hints to really, really understate it. [crosstalk 00:45:14].
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah, totally. Well it sounds like we're just generally, I think intrigued is the right word, Henry. We're intrigued by these collections and just kind of in general keeping an eye on this ongoing conversation between the different types of clothing we wear and how it's changing and shifting.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Evan, I want to thank you for coming on. It's great to get to talk with you.
Evan Malachosky:
Thank you.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Yeah. You can check these collections out. Again, this is the Buck Mason, the Trail Collection is what they're calling it. Their prices are ranging from 45 to $75. And then Sunspel's Activewear, you can check it out on their website, sunspel.com. The prices there are ranging from about $125 to 280.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
All right. Henry, thanks so much for coming on.
Henry Phillips:
Of course. Thanks for having me again.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Scott, thanks for shipping in the spicy takes from Atlanta.
Scott Ulrich:
Yeah, man. Always.
J.D. DiGiovanni:
Great. Great. All right. Well, thanks so much. You'll find links to what we talked about today in our show page, gearpatrol.com/gearpatrolpodcast. And then you can email us at podcast@gearpatrol.com, or reach out to us on social. We'd love to hear from you about any of the topics we discussed today. If you enjoy the show today, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps us out. For Henry Phillips and Scott Ulrich. I'm J.D. DiGiovanni. Thanks so much for joining us.