In this episode, Associate Editor Oren Hartov and Staff Writer Zen Love discuss surprise announcements and big trends from this year's Watches and Wonders trade show. They also respond to some of your purchasing advice requests, and talk about what products they're currently kind of obsessed with.
The annual Watches & Wonders show was chock-full of huge releases, but two announcements in particular really stood out.
Watches and Wonders 2021: All the News in One Place
You Can Now Buy a Two-Tone Rolex Explorer
The Cartier Tank Is Now More Accessible Than Ever: The New Tank
Like All Things in 2021, Rolex (and Your Other Favorite Watch Brands) Is Getting a Little Weird
The Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 Is Getting Its Victory Lap After All
Purchasing Advice:
“My fiancee got a new job at a law firm and I want to get him a watch to celebrate — something he’d be proud to wear in the office — but won’t actually break the bank.” - Jon, Brooklyn
"I like the idea of changing my watch strap, but are there any “rules” to follow?" - Eric, Atlanta
Kind Of Obsessed:
Zen Love:
Oren Hartov:
Nick Caruso:
This is the Gear Patrol Podcast. In this episode, associate editor Oren Hartov and staff writer Zen Love discuss the surprise announcements and big trends from this year's Watches and Wonders trade show. They also respond to some of your purchasing advice requests and talk about what products they're currently kind of obsessed with. Thanks for joining us. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started.
Nick Caruso:
Okay, well, let's just.
Oren Hartov:
Patrol the gear, dude.
Nick Caruso:
You want to patrol gear? I want us to be like the cops McLovin in super bad patrolling. That's the vibe.
Zen Love:
McLovin. I am so behind on so many cultural references, but I'll try to keep up.
Nick Caruso:
Superbad was like 10 years ago.
Oren Hartov:
Modern classic.
Nick Caruso:
Speaking of Superbad, I'm Nick Caruso and you're listening to the Gear Patrol Podcast everybody. Oren Hartov. Hartov, hello to you.
Oren Hartov:
What's up dude?
Nick Caruso:
We also have along for the ride, Zen Love. Zen, good day to you.
Zen Love:
Just here for the ride.
Nick Caruso:
You're just here just to patrol the gear?
Zen Love:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nick Caruso:
Hartov, we have to make a lot of McLovin and references just for Zen to be confused by.
Oren Hartov:
I can't reference my favorite joke from that movie because it's wildly inappropriate, but sure you know the one I mean.
Nick Caruso:
Afterwards.
Oren Hartov:
Sounds good.
Nick Caruso:
So first Zen, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to challenge you to give us the layman's description of Watches and Wonders. There's a little history there. We need that context. And then Hartov, you can fill in any gaps, not to suggest that there will be any gaps, but just in case.
Zen Love:
Watches and Wonders has replaced the two, for now, it seems to have replaced the two major industry watch shows that had been ongoing for many years. There were some problems with the previous one called Baselworld and the other one was called SIHH, which kind of is what morphed into Watches and Wonders. Baselworld kind of died. These are the times of year when all of the big and small watch brands introduce all of their newest products. And especially for Watches and Wonders and SIHH, these are often the higher end brands. So what we're seeing now are kind of fancy watches, expensive, complicated.
Nick Caruso:
And also, it should be said that this is entirely online for probably obvious reasons. Hartov, have anything else to add there?
Oren Hartov:
No. That's a good description. I'd just say that Watches and Wonders, previously SIHH, came about as a result of the Richemont group, one of the big conglomerates in the watch world, have been putting on their own show for years. Now, it's expanded. Baselworld, a much older show, which has going on for about a hundred years it seems, sort of a mass exodus of a lot of brands from its show. And Basel was very expensive to exhibit there. Last year, Rolex, it's sister brand Tudor, Patek Philippe, and a couple other brands decided to decamp for this show, Watches and Wonders. And that sort of put the last nail in the coffin for Baselworld as it has existed for the past century. So now SIHH is no longer just Richemont and some independents. It's really the top brands in the world.
Nick Caruso:
Everyone. Yeah. So the trade shows I know best, because I used to cover cars and just have always loved them, are auto shows. The way I always describe it is a way to demonstrate the trickle down trend effect. The newest Mercedes tech will be in a Kia in five years. And I think that generally applies to other shows kind of like this. And I also want to point out Zen, you said horology. I'm going to try to keep a tally of the number of times we say that today.
Zen Love:
Well that's nice.
Nick Caruso:
So in a moment we'll discuss two specific surprising announcements from Watches and Wonders this year, one from Rolex and one from Cartier, and what they indicate for the watch world. But let's actually talk top level takeaways and trends first to get warmed up. So you guys did your stretches today. You're ready for this?
Oren Hartov:
I'm stretching now on camera.
Nick Caruso:
I'm glad you're stretching Hartov because I'm coming for you first.
Oren Hartov:
Uh oh.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. The other day we were talking about trends. Yep. And you both had obviously really interesting insights. But Hartov, this week or last week, you wrote a post called Like All Things in 2021, Rolex (and Your Other Favorite Watch Brands) Is Getting a Little Weird, and I want to read everyone a quote and then make you defend.
Oren Hartov:
Uh oh.
Nick Caruso:
Is that okay?
Oren Hartov:
You're the boss.
Nick Caruso:
So the quote is, "It seems like we have a ton of watches with funky-ass dials, like pistachio-colored stuff, and salmon-colored stuff, and this jungle-looking thing from Rolex that's perfect for either A) practitioners of guerrilla warfare or B) people who smoke a TON of weed." Unquote.
Oren Hartov:
I did write that.
Nick Caruso:
Yes, you did. The last quip is referring to a specific printed dial, but there's a lot to unpack otherwise. You're talking about colors and prints popping up all over the place. Is that right?
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. Traditionally, you think of a watch you by herself or someone else, special occasions, probably got a white or a black dial, especially if it's something like something you'd wear in the water, something sportier it's probably black, maybe blue. And that's the most adventurous thing you see from some of the larger brands. Lately, been seeing a lot more sort of colored funkier, interesting stuff, especially over the past couple of years, green. It's not sort of a yearly, what's the Pantone color of the year type of thing in the same way that it might be in fashion. We've seen green dials for the past few years and they just seem to have stuck around since maybe 2018, something like that.
Nick Caruso:
Okay.
Oren Hartov:
But now we're seeing all sorts of weird stuff. Not that a big brand like Rolex has never made colorful dials. They did in the seventies. And they're sort of doing that again. Last fall, they announced some really sort of fun colored stuff. But seeing these, like that palm leaf motif on their Datejust model is different. Seeing this colored stuff is interesting and it's been across a lot of the brands this year.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. There were green, like my shirt, like a forest green or an Army green. There were teals, there were minty kind of colors, all sorts of stuff. You said that this color trend has been around before. It's sort of cyclical maybe. Do you think it's more here to stay this time? Is it just are watches more fun as time gets on?
Oren Hartov:
I do think it's cyclical to some degree, as many trends are. But I also feel like we might be at this inflection point where we have so many brands getting into the space, smaller brands, new brands coming along all the time, affordable stuff, funkier stuff. And I think we just might be at one of these inflection points where people are realizing maybe the customer is craving a little bit more sort of adventurousness and interest to other watches. Been making the same looking watches for decades.
Nick Caruso:
Right.
Oren Hartov:
You look at something like the Submariner, it's looked like a Submariner since 1953.
Nick Caruso:
Yep.
Oren Hartov:
So I think it just might be one of those times in the cyclical style trend process in which the manufacturers and customer base are looking for something a little more interesting.
Nick Caruso:
Zen, what do you think? Do you think we're seeing an acceleration of trends, as time advances?
Zen Love:
Do you mean like an acceleration of the colorful dial trend?
Nick Caruso:
Any trend. That, or like the fun accessible to funky, funky-ass I think is what Hartov wrote.
Zen Love:
Yeah. The funky-ass trend is, I guess it's been going on for a few years. It's rooted in the kind of vintage reissue stuff. I feel like the colorful dials are not necessarily coming from that, but leaning into it. A lot of people are a lot more open to these seventies styles that are funky. Some of the trends and change that we see in larger brands is actually coming from, is kind of like a bottom-up type of a movement. I think there've been a lot of influence from micro brands, these smaller independents that have been pushing prices down.
Nick Caruso:
Right.
Zen Love:
That's not the whole story, but I think it's part of it, why some of the brands are focused on more entry-level models in recent years. Yeah, colorful dials. Colorful dials is also a way to give something new when you don't really have something new.
Oren Hartov:
It's also worth noting the higher end brands, who have dedicated collectors who might buy every single SKU. They might probably buy every model. They might buy them in every color. So just speaking to product cycle, maybe there's a three year, let's say product cycle, bringing a new watch to development. And in the in-between years, you're just releasing something with a different color. It's a fairly easy way to shore up one of the years in which you don't have a brand new product.
Nick Caruso:
Essentially, releasing a new color drives a collectability, desire in a way.
Oren Hartov:
It's just a fairly easy thing to do in order to add another collectible. Yeah, I guess you're driving collectability for that particular model.
Zen Love:
An interesting example, if Patek Philippe, they announced that they were retiring their most popular, famous collectible iconic sport watch, which is the model called 5711, but they are giving it one last run this year it had a green dial. And so I think makes it extremely collectible. It stands out right away with the green dial, people are like, "Oh, this is the final 5711." And I thought it was kind of a smart move, and still on trend at the same time.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Horology, let me just mark that down, second tally.
Oren Hartov:
I think that was three, actually. I think you might've said at one more time. Put three or four tallies next to horology.
Zen Love:
Horology.
Oren Hartov:
We'll check them after it. That's five. Put five. Cross those.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. Close the gate? Horology, as a car guy, like I mentioned, horology gosh, watch making, the way in which collectors view watches can identify a reference number from whatever detail they pick out reminds me of how cars used to be. Any more a car looks the same for a decade, but my dad will pick out the differences between a '65 and a '66 Mustang in a heartbeat.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. There's definitely a parallel. A layman might look at a 993 and a 996 or whatever and it looks the same to them, but in watches, someone who is really deep into it, the difference between an early sixties or a late sixties Submariner, even within the same reference, might be distinct. And that's getting super into the weeds. But I do think that applies in collecting cars, watches, whatever it is. People go that deep and appreciate the tiny differences, especially in a model that's super important and really hasn't changed that much over time, aesthetically, it's really the little things that make the difference.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. And you were talking about Porsches, 993 and 996.
Oren Hartov:
The one car brand I can talk about, I guess.
Nick Caruso:
Speaking of specific models, let's move on to talk about those two specific announcements. The first is the Rolex Explorer and a revived lineup from Cartier called the Tank Must. Can I start with you Zen, with the Rolex, because you predicted some of the changes in a post that you put up?
Zen Love:
Yeah. I did a post on what we could see from Rolex and I'd done a post on the Explorer, I think a few months ago. It's interesting, they chose to give the Explorer I a bigger refresh than the Explorer II. So these are both in the Explorer collection and yet they're very different watches. The Explorer I, it's actually just called the Explorer, but it's a very classic, basic black dial watch with a very classic design, steel case. And it was initially meant for mountaineering. The Explorer II is made for spelunking. It's got a fourth GMT hand on the modern version, a 24 hour bezel looks a lot sportier. So they're very different looking watches with different purposes. And the Explorer II was having a birthday this year. So everybody expected something bigger for that model, but it was actually the Explorer I, got the bigger update. And that was downsizing about three millimeters, from 39 millimeters to 36 millimeters. It got a new movement.
Nick Caruso:
And then the colors too, it's the two-tone.
Zen Love:
Yeah. It's a little unexpected to have this classic tool watch, which has always been just in steel, black dial, really straight ahead, kind of now getting this kind of luxury, looking treatment.
Nick Caruso:
Little infusion of the lux. And then Hartov, can you run us through what Cartier introduced? This is a throwback, but also an advancement in many ways.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah, this was interesting. And not something I saw coming. In the early 1970s, Cartier introduced this line called the Must de Cartier. They weren't selling watches particularly well at the time. Tank had been generally a precious metal watch. Many of them were sort of bespoke orders. A couple of people at Cartier got together and decided to make an inexpensive version of the Tank, many of which would have colored dials, steel. I think they called this line the Must de Cartier because it was like all of the things that you should own from the brand. For many years, this was the knock around Tank. You'd find them online for 1,200 bucks, 1,500 bucks, color dial, gold plated case. Weren't particularly sought after collectible. Seeing a brand Cartier, which is not really thought of as a watchmaker, even though they do really fine watchmaking, thought of as a jeweler, taking this really iconic, truly iconic watch, the Tank, and reviving an entry-level version of it with multiple models, including solar powered models was surprising.
Oren Hartov:
It's available in several sizes, some of which have these interesting straps that are made from recycled apple cores.
Nick Caruso:
Oh really? That's wild.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. Colored straps. And then a bunch of them have these special movements. They've taken the very famous Roman numerals on the dial and turned them into cutouts. So sunlight or light comes in, charges this battery, which has a 16 year life to it. So they've taken the line forward and back at the same time. They're great, they start at 25, 2,600 bucks. I think they're available in September or something like that.
Nick Caruso:
Even to me, as someone who isn't super steeped in the world of horology.
Oren Hartov:
Seven, right?
Nick Caruso:
I have nine.
Oren Hartov:
You're at nine. Yeah, put nine.
Nick Caruso:
Even for me, this seems like a huge thing. It's taking an icon and obviously they're reviving a line, but also at the same time, blasting it into the future in a lot of ways. Red, blue and green lacquer are available alongside the classic white and black and then all of the sizes and everything.
Oren Hartov:
Yeah. So really, these three colored ones with matching straps that look straight out of the seventies and eighties.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah, truly.
Oren Hartov:
You can get those too.
Nick Caruso:
Why are these surprising announcements? What makes them so cold splash of water to the face?
Zen Love:
First of all, whatever Rolex does is a big deal. And yet they're always, or not always, but usually pretty subtle changes. I think it's interesting that Rolex shrunk its Explorer three millimeters. It was kind of a gap in their sport watch catalog, especially. I wouldn't call it a shock, but it's a little surprising, especially because people expected something bigger from the Explorer II.
Nick Caruso:
Hartov, what about Cartier?
Oren Hartov:
With Cartier, I think the surprise isn't pulling from it's back catalog, the surprise is going downmarket. A lot of the brands from this show can't buy a $5,000 watch from most of them. To have a brand where you can buy this very, very, I hate to overuse the word, but it really is an icon, this iconic watch, for what is comparatively not a crazy amount of money in several different iterations. And yet it's forward-thinking, it's solar powered, battery lasts almost two decades.
Nick Caruso:
Right.
Oren Hartov:
That's surprising from a brand selling a lot of jewelry, a lot of very expensive jewelry.
Nick Caruso:
So I want to circle back and just summarize the takeaways here. The trends we're seeing from Watches and Wonders specifically aren't necessarily trends as in trendy. They're not this year's hottest whatever, it's a much more intentional kind of movement if I may make upon. And in addition to that, they're also trying to meet consumer demands, I think to, like you said Hartov, move down market a little bit while maintaining their own brand cache. Do those things all true up, or am I off?
Oren Hartov:
I think these are brands, given the price point, who can afford to not chase trends for the most part. I'm sure they're cognizant of the fact that there are new companies in space all the time that speak directly to consumer, especially just with the advent of social media. But a lot of these brands have been around for 100, 150 years. They don't care. They can afford not to care given pricing and longevity about that segment of the market, which is why I think Cartier's move is so surprising. I think the color dial stuff, that is probably the closest we're getting to maybe just a larger, maybe more of a traditional trend. But again, I think even that is cyclical. If we look at watches in the seventies, horology, put down number 10, just being, especially these days, part of fashion, a lot of these things come back around again.
Nick Caruso:
Right on. And especially good for practitioners of guerrilla warfare, as you stated in your piece. We have a couple more segments to get to, or shall I say now we Tank Must move on.
Oren Hartov:
Removing my headphones and leaving.
Nick Caruso:
Don't leave. So this is purchasing advice. Gear Patrol listeners, podcasts listeners, write in with requests for purchasing advice. And I have a couple of watch related questions, which I shared with you earlier today. So I'll read them off and then ask you to weigh in. Is that a deal?
Oren Hartov:
Where do you aim most of your dad jokes at if you don't have kids? Who is the recipient?
Nick Caruso:
This podcast is the... This is my outlet to be insufferable in public. I can't do that lately, so I go digital.
Oren Hartov:
All right, hit us with these product recommendations.
Nick Caruso:
No, I want to spend a little time on that because I also-
Oren Hartov:
Another dad joke?
Nick Caruso:
No, not more dead jokes. I just want to tell you that I also just say them out loud to myself, which is really terrible for me. So the first is from a listener in Brooklyn, "My fiance got a new job at a law firm and I want to get him a watch to celebrate something he'd be proud to wear in the office, but won't actually break the bank. Wonder what both of you might recommend?"
Zen Love:
A law firm, just got a job, Tudor. A Tudor Black Bay, something like that. When you're asked about product recommendations, watch recommendations, I always start with the price point. Going on the fact that he's starting in the law firm, I'm going to say Tudor sounds like about the right level. They're known for an incredible value. They're Rolex's sister brand, kind of baby sister brand, in-house movements, incredible build quality. They're well-respected, well-known and the Tudor Black Bay, any of those would be great. We really like the Black Bay 58 because it's a dive watch with a little bit smaller diameter. It fits pretty well in the office. It's not quite formal, but it's a pretty easy recommendation for that kind of situation.
Nick Caruso:
Hartov, thoughts on this one?
Oren Hartov:
Tudor's a really good idea. I think if you want, I'm trying to think of an elegant counterpart to a Tudor dive watch just to have some variety. And actually my mind goes to the new Tank. Again, as Zen said, the quote unquote, not breaking the bank is very relative.
Nick Caruso:
For sure.
Oren Hartov:
But if he's starting at a law firm, I'm going to take that into account. Something like one of those new Tanks, some leather strap I think is sort of perfect. They're not out just yet, they're not available just yet, but start around 2,500 bucks. So somewhere between a Tudor Black Bay, which I think on the bracelet is 3,700 and maybe a little less than a strap, the 58 at least. Though there are other watches in that line for something sportier and something like the Tank, the new Must, which starts 2,500 bucks. I think those are two pretty good recommendations. Great.
Nick Caruso:
Yeah. And with the Must, that lawyer can rest his rectangular green case. M.
Oren Hartov:
an, dude.
Nick Caruso:
I'm furiously scribbling these down as you guys are writing.
Zen Love:
Horology.
Nick Caruso:
That's 11. Yeah, it's really sad what I'm doing over here. So the second one, this is from Eric in Atlanta says, "I like the idea of changing my watch strap," doesn't indicate what kind of watch, but wonders if there are any rules to follow, quote, rules to follow. So like faux pas or practical advice in terms of matching a strap to a watch.
Zen Love:
Remember I had this same question when I was early on getting into watches. Now that I have more experience, I would not say that there are rules, so to speak, but there are probably helpful guidelines, like depending on what type of watch you have, there are classic choices, a range of classic choices of strap that are basically for that kind of watch. And it can be fun to switch if it's a sport watch. Everybody loves changing NATO straps, they're super cheap. Rubber straps are fun and cheap for sport watches. And then there's a whole range of leather straps that match better for more formal watches. And I think one of the pieces of advice you often hear about this is matching the color of some dial elements to either the strap material itself or perhaps if it has some contrast stitching. So if you have maybe a red second hand on a black dial or something like that, something with red stitching or something like that might be good. But you probably don't want to inject another color into the whole situation.
Nick Caruso:
It's good advice. I like it. Hartov?
Oren Hartov:
I don't have a ton to add. I think that's good advice. Yeah, the only thing I'd say is if you're wearing a more elegant watch, dressed up a little bit, especially if it's formal wear, I think a simple leather strap, thin one, is generally the way to go. Not to say that there aren't elegant dress watches that common bracelets, matching bracelets, or that you can't get away with that. Especially these days, there are a lot of third-party aftermarket bracelets that mirror vintage designs that you can get more than, just in the past few years I've seen a ton of that. Like the beads of rice style, you can buy aftermarket versions, which those had gone away for a long time.
Nick Caruso:
Which is like a finer-
Oren Hartov:
Like a mesh of links. Yeah. There are so many choices that we have multiple guides to each type on Gear Patrol. Leather strap guides, we have NATO and Perlons. We have one guide just to summer watch straps. We have guides to bracelets. So I would just poke around on Gear Patrol. We have a ton of literature on this just because there is so much choice.
Nick Caruso:
I'll be linking that stuff in the show notes. So if you are listing, Eric in Atlanta, you just got a load of advice and you can check out those links. And now we're going to move on to the final segment, which is kind of obsessed. Our guests share a product they are currently obsessing over whether it's new to them or it's on their wishlist or something they're testing for work. Zen, I think you started last time. Hartov do you have anything you're obsessing over right now?
Oren Hartov:
I know I keep talking about it, but I have always wanted a Tank. I love a yellow, gold version. I don't think I'm spending $12,000 in a Trust watch I'll wear four times a year anytime soon. But with the Must, and I never really liked the Musts, the originals, but with the new ones, the steel with the photovoltaic dial, I really like that watch. I have not held one in person, but I keep thinking about it. And I think if I get a chance to go into a boutique sometime this year, do a review, I'd really like to check that out. I would actually consider one of those.
Nick Caruso:
Zen, how about you?
Zen Love:
If it's all right if I mentioned not something that's brand. I've got this Yema Speedgraf that I'm reviewing. It came out last year. It's a retro style watch, but it's a chronograph with a panda dial, actually it's reverse panda dial, which means it's got white subdials on black main dial and relatively inexpensive for a mechanical chronograph. It uses a Seiko automatic chronograph movement in it, which is really rare, this particular movement is. Even Seiko hardly uses this specific movement. So it's a little bit interesting and they just did a really nice job and made this type of watch really fun to wear. A lot of chronographs are expensive, so they feel serious. They're not as fun, but this one costs about actually $1,500. This is all relative, but yeah, I've been just loving wearing that one. That's my helicopter.
Nick Caruso:
I thought maybe you were in trouble, but I guess if that's your getaway vehicle, it's good timing, because that is all the time, the horology.
Oren Hartov:
12?
Nick Caruso:
That's 12. 12. That's all the time we've got for this episode of the Gear Patrol Podcast. Hartov, Zen, thank you for your time. And listeners, everything we talked about today will be linked in the show notes and in a post on gearpatrol.com. So make sure you're subscribed on your podcast service of choice so you don't miss a weekly episode and I would really appreciate you rating the podcast. Did you know that five star reviews help more people find us and join in the conversation? That's algorithms, baby. Let's feed them. So if you leave us a five star review and you ask for a product recommendation in it, we will see about getting you some purchasing advice on a future episode. And beyond that, questions and comments and more can be emailed to me at podcast@gearpatrol.com. Hartov and Zen, tanks again. It's the last one. Zen, you have to watch Superbad immediately.
Zen Love:
I'm on it, yeah. I'm going to watch it in the helicopter.
Nick Caruso:
If you can watch it in the helicopter, that's even better.
Zen Love:
Yeah. This is a watch lifestyle, luxury lifestyle.
Nick Caruso:
Everyone, I'm Nick Caruso. I am glad you joined me today. I hope you're doing well. And until next time, take care. Tank care.